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  1. Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."



    I hate Brain Billick. He really acts like he works for Peter Angelose. His biggest concern is not losing to Miami. Personally, I don't give a shit if they lose. In fact, I've been thinking they would for 6 weeks. Like Madden said, play Smith because you have nothing to lose and something to gain.

    The other disturbing comments in that article are about basically bringing the same crew back- and expecting different results.I guess coach know it all is hoping an angel will drop a new dynamic out of the sky next year.




  2. #17

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    If very little changes in the off season, then we might go 6-10 or 7-9. I was very disappointed in that article. Billick sounds very smug about his return.




  3. #18

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Gotta disagree with Green Wave & Losac......

    Is Boller the starter next season? Coming off a 3 pick game, albeit behind by four scores, sure throws a monkey wrench into that decision. Let's see how he does on the road, and against one of the better teams at home where we hopefully would not have given the game away in the first few minutes.

    Settling in on the starting QB has a rippling effect on the entire offseason activity. With the many needs that this team has, being able to invest high picks into positions that are worse off than the QB position is arguably the best way to rebuild. Especialy in a year when there no prospective Peyton Mannings or Carson Palmers to be had.

    What do we gain by watching Smith in true game action - not mop-up against scrubs? Some evidence as whether he should be elevated to #2, dropped to #3 or PS, or cut. That is a relatively insignificant decision.
    What do we gain by watching Boller suck as usual? Do you and Dave get wood watching him or something?

    So, I want you to tell me honestly, how much does Boller have to suck before you realize he isn't the QB of the future? Do we need Pro Bowlers at every offensive position for Boller to succeed? Does he need another 5 years for the game to slow down enough for him?

    Oh yeah, I like how "Boller threw 3 picks, albeit down by 3 scores"...
    So I guess it's okay for the QB to throw picks when down big (or down for that matter), THEN TO HAVE A QB THAT WILL GET US BACK IN THE FUCKING GAME!!!

    Oh yeah, T, I am wondering, where is one of your legendary QB threads, bashing horrible QB performance from the last game? Can you say BIASED???
    Season over, guess I'll have to start drinking beer again...




  4. #19

    Wink Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    How much longer are you gonna hold on to this?

    How much more do you need to see?
    Hold onto what? Coaches play the best player you've got at each position ... is there anything revolutionary about that idea? Like it or not, Boller is our best QB at the moment. Maybe we'll pick up a FA next season who will be more talented to beat him out -- if so, great. (I don't think there's anyone in the draft to do so). I want to see the best players at each position wearing purple.

    I don't think that Smith is big enough or talented enough to start in the NFL. So I don't buy into the hoopla about starting him. (And I did see him up close in the last minute of the game last night, lined up with scrubs and playing against scrubs who just wanted the game to end with no injuries.)

    As to how much more to see ... I don't place a lot of weight on a game where 3 picks were thrown when down by four or more scores. I saw a pretty good game at QB the week before despite major protection issues. I'd be a lot more concerned if we are in the game next week and Boller blows it with interceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    We aren't worse of at any position than we are at the most important position on the field, QB.
    That's why we have message board debates, Poe. You apparently think that QB is the position that needs most upgrade. I disagree. Our QB play is about average. I believe that our team is a lot worse off at the DE and CB positions. If we don't see major upgrades next season, we could be in for another losing season.

    And other considerations against picking up a high round QB: Pretty bad off on the OL; I can't tell you who is suckier right now, but, as a unit, the OL is pretty bad. And LB may not be too far behind if Ray loses another step and if Suggs doesn't rebound. We have no burner WR, our punter looks worse each week, and the TEs look average at best.

    If Ryan, Ainge, Flacco etc. were to fall far enough, I would be happy to see one of them picked and challenge Smith for the #2 QB position (I doubt that anyone in the draft is ready to start as a rookie). Just not picked ahead of the team's more pressing needs.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  5. #20

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    As to how much more to see ... I don't place a lot of weight on a game where 3 picks were thrown when down by four or more scores. I saw a pretty good game at QB the week before despite major protection issues. I'd be a lot more concerned if we are in the game next week and Boller blows it with interceptions.
    First of all, we were down 14-0 with over 9 minutes left in the 1st quarter when Boller threw that absolutely horrendous pick. He stared down Mason and everyone in that stadium knew it. It was not garbage time and we were not down by four or more scores. Seriously, defending the guy is one thing. But let's not rewrite history here.

    And really, if you're not concerned by that game last night then there truly isn't much point in debating this issue.

    I just pray Ozzie and Co. see what I see.

    And believe me, Im concerned about some of the other things you brought up.

    PP




  6. #21
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    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    If he completely folds, he folds. Then we KNOW we need to draft a QB.
    We wouldn't find enough out about Troy Smith if he played every minute to the end of the season that would stop us from drafting a QB. WE WILL DRAFT A QB, Troy Smith isn't going to show enough in a few games to stop that.

    I have to agree with MistaT on one thing, Troy Smith probably isn't talented enough or big enough to make it in the NFL. That said, I wouldn't just cut the guy without getting him some work this year and next as I outlined above.

    But we WILL draft another QB. There is no way this team will go into next season with Troy Smith and Boller as its only prospects at QB for the future.

    And of course Billick is trying to win against Miami, do you want the Ravens to be THE ONE TEAM they beat? I want a few more wins to get us down a few more picks in the draft. Drafting top 5 is a cap killer, the chance of a bust killing you cap-wise for a few seasons is very high. Ask a few Browns fans about busts at that level.




  7. #22

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Our QB play is about average.






    Though our QB play is south of average, if you're satisfied with being average at the NFLs most important position you're a loser.




  8. #23

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    "I don't think that Smith is big enough or talented enough to start in the NFL. So I don't buy into the hoopla about starting him. (And I did see him up close in the last minute of the game last night, lined up with scrubs and playing against scrubs who just wanted the game to end with no injuries.)"
    -Mista T


    Smith played horribly - IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!!!


    Boller played horribly in regular season NFL games and had mediocre seasons in a weak pac-10.

    How many more games to we have to give up on seeing if Boller is "it"- HE ISN'T THE GUY!!!

    How do I know? Watch the 40 or so NFL games he has played in.

    Is Troy Smith the second coming of Joe Montana? HE ACTUALLY COULD BE...BUT WE WILL NEVER KNOW UNLESS WE GIVE HIM A CHANCE!!

    Do I honestly think he will be? NO - BUT AT LEAST GIVE THE GUY A CHANCE!!!


    Boller hasn't earned any more chances, Troy has.

    Even if he screws up against the Dolphins, at least give the Heisman trophy winner and National Champion runner-up qb 3/40 of the chances THAT WERE GIVEN TO THE QB BUST KYLE BOLLER!!!

    Once he really shows he has no chance of getting better, then you give up on him.




  9. #24

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Quote Originally Posted by copenhaggard View Post
    What do we gain by watching Boller suck as usual? Do you and Dave get wood watching him or something?

    So, I want you to tell me honestly, how much does Boller have to suck before you realize he isn't the QB of the future? Do we need Pro Bowlers at every offensive position for Boller to succeed? Does he need another 5 years for the game to slow down enough for him?

    Oh yeah, I like how "Boller threw 3 picks, albeit down by 3 scores"...
    So I guess it's okay for the QB to throw picks when down big (or down for that matter), THEN TO HAVE A QB THAT WILL GET US BACK IN THE FUCKING GAME!!!

    Oh yeah, T, I am wondering, where is one of your legendary QB threads, bashing horrible QB performance from the last game? Can you say BIASED???

    So Crows, did you come back to this forum just to be a jerk? Judging by this post and your joke of a thread in the QB forum, I'm going to say yes. And that is a shame from what I remember of you.

    And if so, I'll be the first to ask you to please head back to YBR because especially at this point in our very rough season it is NOT welcome here I assure you.

    Now, to your post. It's real hard to defend Boller's play Sunday. It was shit, pure and simple. Frustrating to a level I hadn't felt since Denver 2005.

    But let's not for a second pretend Mason and Clayton and Darling were just getting wide open all over the place. BTW, remind me again which one of those is a legitimate #1 receiver? Didn't think so.

    And let's not pretend for a second that Willis McGahee was running all over the Colts DB's like he did against the Pats. Anyone call any sweeps or draws for Willis to run? Could Willis hit any holes with authority?

    That entire team packed it in before the first quarter even fucking ended. Enough for me to leave the stadium and waste $50 on parking and food before the second quarter even started. Pissed isn't the word I can use to tell you how I feel right now. Numb is a good word.

    Boller is done here. No matter what the reason, fair or unfair, he's here out of contract alone. Doesn't matter whether he's just never latched on, or the team never built around him correctly. He's not the answer here.

    But guess what else? No one is the answer here as long as Brian Billick is the offensive coordinator, but it's going to take another 2-3 QB failures for people to finally catch on. As much as I would like to see what Troy Smith has, we won't really know. He'll be forced to run this same offense that has ruined QB after QB. Troy Smith, and whatever draft pick we use, will just be the next casulty in the Billick system.


    And what the Ravens FO better figure out and quick, is that as a PSL owner and season ticket holder, I am NOT one of those that they want to stop caring about this team. That is $1,000 I can easily spend elsewhere.




  10. #25

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Lets examine the qb development of a playoff-bound team - the Cleveland Browns.

    Their opening day starting qb had a couple chances - after not being successful he was gone because he hadn't shown any success in the past so he received no more "benefit of the doubt" from the coaches.


    On the bench was a highly touted first round draft pick out of Notre Dame who was mediocre in college at best but.....was a first round pick.

    So what does Crennell do? Does he go right to the first round pick? No, he goes to the nest guy in the "rotation" - Derek Anderson.

    Crennell didn't play favorites - he gave everyone an honest shot. Now the Browns are in a very enviable position.

    Actually not everyone has recieved their shot yet (Brady Quinn)- Anderson is productive and valuable and now by avoiding the hype of immediately going with the 1st round pick from Notre Dame they found a gem right under their noses for a much cheaper price.

    The lesson learned? You can't negate qb's abilities based purely on where they were drafted and how highly touted they were on draft day. You have to give everyone an equal shot in training camp (jut the opposite of Brian Billick in 2003) and base the starters on their actual production in camp and gametime.

    Maybe Smith really sucked in practice and in camp, but in 2 minutes against scrubs in a real game, he looked much better than the high draft pick who had 40 games under his belt against the same scrubs.




  11. #26

    Thumbs down Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Quote Originally Posted by RustonRifle View Post
    if you're satisfied with being average at the NFLs most important position you're a loser.
    Stuff it. Losers are those who come onto to message boards to personally insult others for expressing their positions.

    QB is one of 22 starting positions. We haven't had quality QB play since 1977 - 30 years. That's not about to start by playing an undersized 5th rounder who belongs in the CFL. I don't see another Bert Jones in the 2008 draft. Wasting a first or 2nd rounder on another average QB, or trying to make something out of nothing with Troy Smith, will wind us up exactly where we are.

    I like winning. Our team has 1/2 dozen major holes to fill. Higher priorities than QB. No NFL QB can survive behind our porous OL, and no NFL QB can win games when the Defense easily gives up 44 points.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  12. #27

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Quote Originally Posted by purple bird View Post
    Lets examine the qb development of a playoff-bound team - the Cleveland Browns.

    Their opening day starting qb had a couple chances - after not being successful he was gone because he hadn't shown any success in the past so he received no more "benefit of the doubt" from the coaches.


    On the bench was a highly touted first round draft pick out of Notre Dame who was mediocre in college at best but.....was a first round pick.

    So what does Crennell do? Does he go right to the first round pick? No, he goes to the nest guy in the "rotation" - Derek Anderson.
    Gotta stop you right there. Derek Anderson was NOT the next guy in the rotation. The ONLY reason Anderson got to play was because Brady Quinn held out of nearly ALL of training camp while trying to get money he didn't earn via. his draft position from the Browns.

    If Quinn goes through camp with everyone else, he would have been the QB that went into the game when Frye was pulled, NOT Anderson.


    Maybe Smith really sucked in practice and in camp, but in 2 minutes against scrubs in a real game, he looked much better than the high draft pick who had 40 games under his belt against the same scrubs.
    Minus the fact that Sunday was more than just Boller's play you may just be right. But then why does nobody in this entire city, including people here who want him to start, believe he's the long term answer to the team?




  13. #28
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    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Stuff it. Losers are those who come onto to message boards to personally insult others for expressing their positions.

    QB is one of 22 starting positions. We haven't had quality QB play since 1977 - 30 years. That's not about to start by playing an undersized 5th rounder who belongs in the CFL. I don't see another Bert Jones in the 2008 draft. Wasting a first or 2nd rounder on another average QB, or trying to make something out of nothing with Troy Smith, will wind us up exactly where we are.

    I like winning. Our team has 1/2 dozen major holes to fill. Higher priorities than QB. No NFL QB can survive behind our porous OL, and no NFL QB can win games when the Defense easily gives up 44 points.
    Why are you willing to write Smith off before he's even had a chance to show what he has? Boller has been given 5 years, why should a 5th round QB not be given a chance to grow?

    I'm not picking on you T, but it seems that you really don't want any competition at the QB position. That way we would have to stick with Boller. We all talk about winning, but what makes you think we can win with Boller as our starter?




  14. #29

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    So Crows, did you come back to this forum just to be a jerk? Judging by this post and your joke of a thread in the QB forum, I'm going to say yes. And that is a shame from what I remember of you.

    And if so, I'll be the first to ask you to please head back to YBR because especially at this point in our very rough season it is NOT welcome here I assure you.

    Now, to your post. It's real hard to defend Boller's play Sunday. It was shit, pure and simple. Frustrating to a level I hadn't felt since Denver 2005........
    .....

    etc.....
    .....
    Again, when McNair set the NFL record for lowest yards per completion, and other shitty performances, there was a collective shit taken on him on THIS message board from a number of posters.

    Maybe if people weren't BLAMING JUST McNair ALL the time, and took a look at the WHOLE picture, they wouldn't have said the same shit. It's just funny to me how all of the sudden our OLINE, receivers, etc need to be upgraded when Boller has been playing like crap. That's been a fact for awhile, but certain people are only saying that now when McNair cannot be shit on any longer.

    Believe me, I thought he sucked since the PO game last year, but you didn't hear see myself and other posters starting tons of threads about him w/o looking at the whole picture. Our QBs suck, system sucks, our receiving corps lack a deep threat, and the OLINE needs time to develop.

    Anyway, I agree with the Billick take, and I've never really been too impressed with his joke of a system. I really am not going to argue that, because I've said the exact same thing to other people.
    Season over, guess I'll have to start drinking beer again...




  15. #30

    Re: Billick: "Suck it fans. I'll be back next year, and Kyle is starting next week."

    [QUOTE=StingerNLG;64278]Gotta stop you right there. Derek Anderson was NOT the next guy in the rotation. The ONLY reason Anderson got to play was because Brady Quinn held out of nearly ALL of training camp while trying to get money he didn't earn via. his draft position from the Browns.

    If Quinn goes through camp with everyone else, he would have been the QB that went into the game when Frye was pulled, NOT Anderson.


    -
    Quinn did not, however, go through camp with everyone else, which is why Anderson was next in the "rotation".




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