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  1. Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)



    Quote Originally Posted by RavenTD View Post
    Billick,will use him like every other Raven QB.Using the same old system.
    And that is where the problem is.

    You cannot take a guy like Troy Smith and try and make him a pure pocket passer.
    It won't work!!

    He needs to be allowed to play "street football" for lack of a better term right now.

    His game which he excels at is being mobile and making things happen with his feet and mobility.
    Will Die A Ravens Fan!!




  2. #17

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    Pro, as usual, nails this head-on.

    First of all, it was absolutely inexcusable for Brian Billick to wait until practically the two minute warning of last night's game to put in Troy Smith. That game was over (evident by the mass-halftime exodus) before the intermission. Troy Smith should have been starting the second half last night, and the final three games of the season. Period.

    But he won't. Billick is too stubborn, and has been for much of his coaching tenure in Baltimore. I've defended his practices for the last time. He needs to go, but won't.

    There is clearly debate about this, but I completely disagree with the notion that playing a rookie quarterback can be counter-productive for a player's development. I think it's one of the most bogus myths in professional sports, one that's often used to defend Kyle Boller's career ineffectiveness.

    Face it. Kyle Boller is a top-level athlete, and a low-level NFL quarterback. Someone, somewhere, saw a kid with great physical tools, and tried to fit the square peg he represents into a round hole called the quarterback position. A great athlete does not always a great quarterback make. See Michael Vick for proof. The position requires a lot more than just physical prowess. Mental and accuracy deficiencies are impossible to overcome for even the most gifted quarterbacks.

    But this isn't about the past (Boller). That mistake became obvious to most objective observers sometime several years ago, and has just been reaffirmed over his latest stint as Ravens' starter by default this year.

    Billick, who in all likelihood will return next season, should plainly see that this is the time for Troy Smith, because what he and other Ravens decision makers see in Smith over the course of the next three games could go a long way to determining how this team approaches the quarterback position in the offseason.

    If Smith proves as a starter to show signs of promise, that he infact has the ability to play the quarterback position effectively at the NFL level, it would go a long way to determining whether or not this team has to invest a potential early-round draft pick in a quarterback, a make-or-break propostion in the world of professional football.

    We've all seen first-hand how much that early-round investment in a player at the game's most significant position can set a franchise back if the player they choose doesn't realize the potential his lofty draft status suggests he could. Don't learn from history, and watch as it repeats itself in brutal, franchise crippling fashion.

    Troy Smith could be Eric Crouch, a heisman trophy winning college football player with no NFL potential at the quarterback position. He could be Seneca Wallace, a reliable back-up quarterback limited by his size but productive when given the chance to perform. Or he could be Drew Brees, an under-sized, but immensely talented FOOTBALL PLAYER, whose abilities trump his lack of height... I think Troy Smith has 'IT'.

    But there is only one way for the Ravens, their fans, and even Smith himself to find out. Expose him to the one thing no college player can truly prepare for without in game, live action. That would be SPEED.

    I, for one, have a lot of belief in Troy Smith. I also have very little faith in the Baltimore Ravens vision of how to approach the quarterback position, made evident by their consistent failure at addressing that one position. I hope, for once, they buck their historically horrendous approach, and give Troy Smith the ball. It could tell them everything they need to know going into the most crucial, and complicated, offseason in the franchise's history.




  3. #18

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    What a great thread this is!! Kudos to all who have posted.

    The season is over, folks. Time for reflection and most of all evaluation. How will we know what direction we need to take in the draft if everyone is not fairly evaluated. The last time I checked, the only way you get experience is by doing, not watching. Troy Smith has sat on the pine long enough.

    I truly hope we do not win another game. I want the highest position possible in the draft. This affects our second, third, fourth round etc. Nothing is gained by winning at this point anyway, so put in Troy Smith and give him at least a little NFL experience so that he can rightfully compete next year in training camp.

    But Billick is a dumb coach and he won't see it that way.




  4. #19
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    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    My only addition is Troy played with a HUGE O Line at OH. I dont see why his height is a factor since it never was when he was playing college ball.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  5. #20

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    Two questions:

    1) If Troy Smith is this good, why did every other team pass on him for 5 rounds?

    2) When did the Heisman Trophy automatically mean you were going to be an NFL star? I think Danny Wuerffel, Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Jason White, and now it seems even Matt Leinart would have something to say about that.

    The only Heisman winner in recent memory I know of that actually made something of himself in the league is Carson Palmer. And even he can't seem to put the Bengals on his shoulders and lead them anywhere.


    I'm ready to see Troy Smith too. But I am not buying into his college career and his Heisman Trophy when he was drafted were he was.




  6. #21

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    Draft pick position means nothing with qb's. Just look at Brady and Derek Anderson.

    Heck, Roethlesberger was considered a "bad" first round choice because he wasn't highly touted by all the supposed scouting "know-it-alls". He has "it", however.




  7. #22

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    I'm glad to see that there are alot of varying perspectives on whether or not Troy Smith should get a shot at the title.

    I truly believe that for all of the coaching talents that Billick has, the one thing that seems to elude him more oftentimes than not is the ability to think outside of the box.

    I'm not going to get into a bashing session here, there are enough threads on that, but it is clear that both Smith is Ozzie and DeCosta's guy NOT Billick.

    Billick seems to be more enamored with the measurables of a player rather than the abilities of one. Perfect example, remember long ago when he first got here.

    He couldn't get Brad Johnson because Johnson could no longer cope with Billick's ego so he took a lesser deal to play for the Bucs and wound up winning a championship in Tampa.

    Who'd he go and get instead? Scott Mitchell, all 6'6 inch tall, sub-par back-up QB Scott Mitchell.

    And when he dumped Trent Dilfer after the Superbowl, who did he sign? Elvis Grbac, all 6'5 inch tall, former Pro-Bowl now long retired after cryin his eyes out Elvis Grbac.

    And we know that Billick fell in love with Boller because of the impressive things he can do on his knees.

    Boller is Billick's guy, that much is obvious. I'm not the H.C. of the Baltimore Ravens so of course there's info that he's privy to that most of us are not.

    Just the same, with the season being what it is and the harsh realization that any way you slice it the QB position will need to be overhauled in the offseason, these last few games yield the best opportunity to see if Smith has progressed from the preseason.

    How many 3-5 turnover games will it take before Billick can no longer back-rationalize each mistake Boller makes away? The QB position is one where you get too much credit either way whether you win or lose but that is the nature of the job. (-19 overall in his career)

    It's more of a certainty that if 31 other guys who start for Pro NFL teams turned over the ball more consistently than it scored TD's then they more than likely wouldn't be starting QB's for long, ask John Beck with the Dolphins.

    It's almost an assurity that if Boller single-handedly loses on Sunday against the winless Dolphins that Billick will have no choice but to give the rookie more playing time.

    Now I'm not saying that Smith would start for the rest of the season, but there would be more of a likelihood that they'd go into straight evaluation mode rather than playing for little more than pride.

    I don't know about you, but it's just not a good idea to immediately expect the solution to your problems to come from outside until you've FAIRLY evaluated what you have in house.

    If he blows it and implodes worse than Boller has whenever he gets his chance then so be it. But what of the opposite?

    What if he comes out there and starts raining points onto the scoreboard? That's what happened in Cleveland when Derek Anderson got his shot after he replaced Charlie Frye.

    Anderson was supposed to just hold a spot until they got Quinn acclimated enough with the playbook to start the learning process. But instead of being just a caretaker, he started lightin up the scoreboard and earned his starting spot LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO.

    I don't know about you, but if my job was to put points up on the scoreboard and my career ratio of doing my job (44 TD's) was -19 to that effect, no matter how much my boss liked me he'd have to go in a different direction sooner rather than later.

    Just my opinion.-Pro-




  8. #23

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    Excellent Post Pro!!!

    Boller never earned the starting spot from Redman in 2003 and Wright seemed to do better in the camps for the years following.

    Boller is here only because of some obsession that Billick has with him.

    Remember the commencement speech Billick mad to JHU grads (or maybe it was UB grads) where he admitted to having a vasectomy? Well, my opinon on the Billick-Boller affair is that, seeing as Billick only has daughters, he sees Boller as the "son he never had". Billick is a psychologist and probably would say the same thing about himself if he were to objectively analyze himself.




  9. #24

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    I like your posts Pro, but:

    Quote Originally Posted by Prolific View Post
    He couldn't get Brad Johnson because Johnson could no longer cope with Billick's ego so he took a lesser deal to play for the Bucs and wound up winning a championship in Tampa.
    Do you have a link for this? Because I don't seem to remember Brad Johnson saying he didn't want to play for Billick because of his ego. You're going to need to provide some proof on this.


    Who'd he go and get instead? Scott Mitchell, all 6'6 inch tall, sub-par back-up QB Scott Mitchell.
    Brian Billick doesn't "go and get" any player. You can thank Ozzie Newsome for signing Scott Mitchell.


    And when he dumped Trent Dilfer after the Superbowl, who did he sign? Elvis Grbac, all 6'5 inch tall, former Pro-Bowl now long retired after cryin his eyes out Elvis Grbac.
    Once again, Ozzie cut Dilfer, and Ozzie signed Elvis Grbac. NOT Brian Billick.

    Brian Billick is not the final say in anything player personnel related.


    And we know that Billick fell in love with Boller because of the impressive things he can do on his knees.

    Boller is Billick's guy, that much is obvious. I'm not the H.C. of the Baltimore Ravens so of course there's info that he's privy to that most of us are not.
    We're all privy to the reason Boller was drafted. Ozzie went after Byron Leftwich (which in retrospect thank GOODNESS we didn't draft either), and something happened to the phone between him and Minnesota to get the pick traded. Jacksonville then drafted Leftwich, and we were left with a hurt Chris Redman who wasn't going to be the QB of the future (gee, where have we heard that before?). Boller was the next QB BPA, so they traded for the spot to get him.

    That's pretty common knowledge. And once again, the final decision to draft Kyle Boller was NOT Brian Billick's. It was Ozzie Newsome's. If Ozzie didn't want to draft Boller he could have held firm or drafted Rex Grossman or something.

    Billick gets a lot of blame for players development once they get into the system. And he gets the blame for the system itself. But it's time to stop blaming Billick for drafting or "getting" players when that is absolutely 100% not his job, and he has no ability to do.




  10. #25

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    StingerNLG, I can't say that I've got concrete proof I can provide right now on stuff that happened 11 years ago. That's a little ambitious even for me.

    On the old message board, some of us didn't care for the Scott Mitchell acquisition. We all had our varying opinions and I won't waste either of our time defending something I can't prove with 100% indisputable evidence.

    For the sake of argument, I'll preclude your observations with the words 'Rumor has it', that way we all know to take it all with a grain of salt and not literally. Hopefully that ends any misunderstands, cause I'm the first one to admit any misnomers.

    The observations that I make are simply my own opinion. If everyone here had to present concrete evidence towards everything that they post, it'd probably be alot less posts if you know what I mean.


    Back to the basis of the preceding post. IMO, Billick has always struck me as a measurables kind of evaluator. The only times he's gotten past that is when there has been indisputable evidence to the contrary, I.E. with Steve McNair.

    McNair is what, 6'2 which is shorter than his previously hand-picked starting QB's like Mitchell, Grbac, Banks and the like.

    Whenever a guy on the Ravens roster that doesn't fit the traditional mold at QB it's probably because he's played his way into that position. And just as well, he most likely also played his way out. (except for Trent Dilfer, of course)

    So I figure that in order for this scenario to play itself out and allow Smith to show us what he's got, Boller's gonna have to TANK in the Dolphins game.

    Now everyone knows that I'm not one of those fans who wishes that my team would lose for draft position.

    But most of the so-called experts do agree that the Dolphins best chance of winning at least one game this year will be when they play the Ravens at home on Sunday.

    They've already let it be known that instead of playing John Beck whom most think they're grooming for the future, they're playing 3-year veteran Cleo Lemon.

    Not that it makes that huge of a difference against our defense (when healthy), but what that tells me is that they're trying to get at least one win and the three-year-vet gives them their best chance of accomplishing that task.

    In essence, their desperation along with the Ravens offensive ineptitude and home field advantage arguably gives them their best shot at getting a 'W' on Sunday more so than against any other opponent they face for the remainder of the season.

    There's the Ravens on Sunday, the Patriots and the Bengals. Clearly if you're gonna blow your load in an attempt to get a win against any of these three teams, it's gonna be against our team.

    Heck, the Ravens had better have the same mindset with two remaining game against Seattle and Pittsburgh. It's gonna be one of those games where both teams realize that against the guys lined up on the other side of the field this Sunday; that's their best chance of gettin a win this season.

    That being said, if Boller implodes and allows a friggin winless team to get one against my team... I don't even wanna think about that... but if it were to happen they'd have to consider playing Smith at least a couple of series here and there.

    Oh to be a fly on the wall at the Castle during meetings man. What, is the kid nodding off at meetings or something? Is he stinkin up the joint in practice?

    Rarely do you hear anything in regards to how he's been progressing throughout the year so I haven't a clue.

    When Billick was asked whether or not Troy would start this week, Billick kinda snickered and said that Kyle was the starter and he gives them their best chance to win.

    The way he said it was almost in a condensending manner, as if it was kinda funny that anyone would think that Smith was anywhere near ready to lead an offensive attack in the NFL. (don't crucify me, it's only my observations and opinions)

    Did anyone else get that impression? I just hope that we as fans at least get the chance to see the kid do his thing before the season's over with. Who knows what he can do in a live situation until he's actually in a live situation?

    Just my opinion.-Pro-




  11. #26

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    I do not think anyone is calling him the savior of the team Stinger. I along with many people just want to see him get a start. If he turns out to be no better than our other option, at least the questions would be answered.
    I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman!




  12. #27
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    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    Quote Originally Posted by xmradiodave View Post
    I do not think anyone is calling him the savior of the team Stinger. I along with many people just want to see him get a start. If he turns out to be no better than our other option, at least the questions would be answered.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  13. #28

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    Before I say anything, let me say I agree Troy Smith should be getting more time, and soon


    But for the people who are in the "Give me Troy Smith or give me death" camp, and the "Brian Billick should be fired no matter what" camp, there's a few reasons why you're being knee jerk


    1) The whole team played badly against the colts, and we were missing our top two corners. McGahee fumbled on his 1st series. If we're going knee jerk reactions, we should bench him for Mike Anderson, cut C-Mac and Rolle, etc etc. The key is, there is not reason to jerk the knee. This team has had issues this season that don't go back to one player and IF you wanted to put it back on one player, it would be Steve McNair.


    2) We have a game to win against a winless team. For many reasons, you don't go into that game with Troy Smith as your QB. Why Bollerize Troy Smith by letting him make a rookie mistake against a bad team? If anything, let Boller f*ck up before you put in Smith.


    3) We have coaches and players playing for their jobs. While to many a fan this season is now dead, and it is, coaches and players are playing for their jobs/contracts. Can you be sure to get a good read on the abilities of Devard Darling, Dan Wilcox, Quinn Sypnewski, Chris Chester, etc when you're "trying out" Troy Smith? I dont know if you can.


    4) We were just comign off a very dissapointing and very BS loss to the Patriots, which was after a BS loss to the Browns. Let me make it clear the refs screwed us both of those games. Rules should matter. But they apparently don't if you're the ravens. The whole team played flat against the Colts, not just one player.



    Overall, Troy Smith should get some playing time late in these final games. The fact is, however, that other than fan satisfaction and some cursory experience for Troy, you're not going to get much out of playing him this season.


    The likelyhood is that Troy only has a chance to stick with this team if its him v Boller next year. If we draft another QB high, or get a FA like McNabb, Smith has no future with this team, and Boller doesn't either. The only way EITHER has a future here is if they are the two men battling it out come Mini-Camps and such.




  14. #29

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post

    1) The whole team played badly against the colts, and we were missing our top two corners. McGahee fumbled on his 1st series. If we're going knee jerk reactions, we should bench him for Mike Anderson, cut C-Mac and Rolle, etc etc. The key is, there is not reason to jerk the knee. This team has had issues this season that don't go back to one player and IF you wanted to put it back on one player, it would be Steve McNair.


    2) We have a game to win against a winless team. For many reasons, you don't go into that game with Troy Smith as your QB. Why Bollerize Troy Smith by letting him make a rookie mistake against a bad team? If anything, let Boller f*ck up before you put in Smith.


    3) We have coaches and players playing for their jobs. While to many a fan this season is now dead, and it is, coaches and players are playing for their jobs/contracts. Can you be sure to get a good read on the abilities of Devard Darling, Dan Wilcox, Quinn Sypnewski, Chris Chester, etc when you're "trying out" Troy Smith? I dont know if you can.


    1.) McGahee hasn't been a problem this team. Lack of preparedness, discipline, QB play, and the playcalling have. I don't think people here are going with kneejerk reactions because of one game. It's been the whole season. There were a lot of knee jerk reactions when McNair sucked, as there should have been.

    On a side note, how is most of the blame of this season supposed to go on McNair's shoulders? He HAS BEEN terrible, yes. Boller has been better, but not by much, and hasn't given anyone any indication he'll ever be good. Steve hasn't even played half of the games. Why all of the sudden do we need to make all these improvements, when you were saying 2 months ago it was all Steve's fault? You know, I could make an arrogant statement also if you'd like Dave, "If Steve McNair is the where you would put the blame of our season on, then I would put the blame of 2003 - 2005 on Kyle Boller.".....

    You know, like I've said 20 times in the past 3 days, it's funny how 2 months ago it was all McNair's fault, becnh him, he sucks, blah blah blah....All of the sudden Billick sucks, the OLINE sucks, the receivers suck, etc. Now it's the whole team losing, and not just McNair...It's funny, it really is.


    2.) Smith starting against Miami versus Boller starting is a completely different situation, and you know that. Don't even compare the two. Oh, and just because Boller has a problem with his psyche, or had his psyche ruined when he started in 2003, doesn't mean every QB that ever starts early is going to automatically suck or lose their "psyche". In fact, that is quite the bullshit excuse thrown around for awhile. Personally, I'd want a QB that can deal with shit, and not have to worry about his "psyche" getting hurt.

    So explain what does a great game for Boller vs Miami do for us? Does it show growth? Are we going to find out something new about Boller? If Troy starts the game, and has significant problems, with the overall feel for the game, and such that would be useful information. It would tell the FO : a.) Troy sucks, we need a QB in the 1st / 2nd round...that's unless Smith gets a deal like Boller, suck for 5 years, and still get to start...

    3.) If Troy plays well, then maybe Billick lets him play out the season, and that "might" change our draft strategy. Troy isn't other any pressure to lead the team to glory. And Troy Smith is also playing for his job. He hasn't been given time to shine, like Quinn, Darling, Chester, and Wilcox. Coach's son needs more reps against a winless team I guess. How exactly did we get to see the full potential of half of our other plays when we were "trying Boller out" the past 5 years????



    Believe me, I am not annointing Smith any type of savior. I just do not see a point in Boller starting, I really don't. It proves nothing anymore. What exactly do we have to lose with Smith starting? I don't want mop-up duty, I would like to see Smith attempt to lead the offense, when the game is just starting, or in a critical situation...
    Last edited by copenhaggard; 12-12-2007 at 12:01 PM.
    Season over, guess I'll have to start drinking beer again...




  15. #30

    Re: Pro's Take: Y'all Must-A-4-Got! 'X-Factor' Troy Smith MUST GET A SHOT! (The Anderson Effect)

    This is a great thread! I have to say that the funny thing is that I just read a mock draft at yahoo (who took it from collegefootball.rivals.com) and they have the Ravens taking in the first round:

    8. Baltimore (4-9)
    The Pick: Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona

    And in the second round:
    39. Baltimore
    The Pick: Colt Brennan, QB, Hawaii


    NOW if this were the case would that mean Troy was never meant to be? Or is the goal to have two young QB as to one old and one young?
    Pffffff! I trust wikipedia more than the NFL. If anyone would know football, it is clearly wikipedia.
    -xmradiodave 9/13/08




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