Trump moves capital to Jerusalem

**Laxdad24** · 12-10-2017, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

And what if it doesn’t evoke hatred?

Like I said.. believe what makes you happy and safe. I’m not gonna start a religious war over an opinion. I know plenty of people who are devoted to their faith..and they are fine people. They ,for the most part, do not want to go to war over their faith and beliefs however.

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**NCRAVEN** · 12-10-2017, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

Like I said.. believe what makes you happy and safe

Likewise. Difference is if you’re right life is meaningless.

**Laxdad24** · 12-10-2017, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Likewise. Difference is if you’re right life is meaningless.

Nah. Life is what you make it. Some bad, some good. Number one thing anyone should believe in is themselves. Then hopefully family although I know some don’t have that luxury due things not in their control. Everything else is just stuff or whatever. Jobs, money, etc will work out how they work out. Life as you said is work. Or your job per-say but you get out what you put in.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-11-2017, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

Nah. Life is what you make it. Some bad, some good. Number one thing anyone should believe in is themselves. Then hopefully family although I know some don’t have that luxury due things not in their control. Everything else is just stuff or whatever. Jobs, money, etc will work out how they work out. Life as you said is work. Or your job per-say but you get out what you put in.

That doesn't make like meaningful

The question–that which at the age of fifty brought me to the edge of the abyss–was the simplest of questions… “What will come of what I am doing today or shall do tomorrow? What will come of my whole life?”

Differently expressed, the question is: “Why should I live, why wish for anything, or do anything?” It can also be expressed thus: “Is there any meaning in my life that the inevitable death awaiting me does not destroy?”

My deeds whatever they may be will be forgotten sooner or later, and I myself will be no more, why then do anything? I therefore could not attach a rational meaning to a single act of my entire life. The only thing that amazed me was how I had failed to realize this from the very beginning. How could anyone fail to see this? That’s what is amazing.

It’s possible to live, as long as life intoxicates us. But once we’re sober…

- Leo Tolstoy

**OhThePossibilities** · 12-11-2017, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Likewise. Difference is if you’re right life is meaningless.

It's only meaningless if you let it be. For you maybe life is meaningless without God.

For me, there is too much beauty and joy to find, experience and share in this life. You can find it in nature, in art, in other people... For me, the meaning of life can be in the joy you can bring to others close to you. It can be in love. It can be in kindness.

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**NCRAVEN** · 12-11-2017, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities

It's only meaningless if you let it be. For you maybe life is meaningless without God.

For me, there is too much beauty and joy to find, experience and share in this life. You can find it in nature, in art, in other people... For me, the meaning of life can be in the joy you can bring to others close to you. It can be in love. It can be in kindness.

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Maybe I'm not explaining it right. First point I used to say what Laxdad said a few post ago, that people who believed in God were weak-minded etc. (I said the same thing,verbatim a few years ago to a friend). I've gotten through life just fine enjoying the things in life without trying to understand where they come from. It's only been within the past two years that I've come to want to know or try to understand that.

So I'm not saying that I need God to have meaning in life. I enjoy the things you listed above and think they are good things too. But my point is that if there is no God, if this life is all there is than what we do today or tomorrow means nothing, or it's meaningless.

To quote a Pastor I've read a few books on the topic of if there is no God "The 3 or 4 billion years in which organic life will live on this planet are but an eye blink compared to the oceans of time that proceed and will come after. In the end the universe is going to burn up, nothing is going to make any difference. What you do and how you life makes no difference." (paraphrasing).

But the thing is as you can see from Laxdad and your post, no one really believes what they do is meaningless.

**OhThePossibilities** · 12-11-2017, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Maybe I'm not explaining it right. First point I used to say what Laxdad said a few post ago, that people who believed in God were weak-minded etc. (I said the same thing,verbatim a few years ago to a friend). I've gotten through life just fine enjoying the things in life without trying to understand where they come from. It's only been within the past two years that I've come to want to know or try to understand that.

So I'm not saying that I need God to have meaning in life. I enjoy the things you listed above and think they are good things too. But my point is that if there is no God, if this life is all there is than what we do today or tomorrow means nothing, or it's meaningless.

To quote a Pastor I've read a few books on the topic of if there is no God "The 3 or 4 billion years in which organic life will live on this planet are but an eye blink compared to the oceans of time that proceed and will come after. In the end the universe is going to burn up, nothing is going to make any difference. What you do and how you life makes no difference." (paraphrasing).

But the thing is as you can see from Laxdad and your post, no one really believes what they do is meaningless.

Oh. Well, I wouldn't say religious people are weak minded. And I would never say that there is no god either, though I would lean towards the absence of one (or several) as far as what we can scientifically determine, just because I think what we as humans can comprehend as far as the universe around us is minute. If we're still around as a species in 500 years, the things we will be able to determine probably make us all look a bit stupid today.

**Laxdad24** · 12-12-2017, 12:23 AM

To re-enter our slightly off topic conversation with NCRaven..I have never no do I doubt their is something else out there. I’m solid in my science on almost everything. But I’m also open minded enough to know that things happen daily that science cannot explain. I encourage and applaud anyone who has a thirst or hunger for knowledge and seeks it out. Both physically and philosophically. When I referred to “weak minded” religious people I wasn’t taking a shot at religious people as a whole. I meant to point out the extremist......ie “people who take their beliefs to a point of murder or attacking other people or other cultures. Radicals in anything aren’t good. But religious radicals really seem to drive a lot of violence in this world. Now it’s Isis, the Taliban. We had the IRA back in the 80’s and even before most history was recorded ...the Crusades. No matter the religion extremist took things to a point of killing other “non-believers “. And to tie this to the OP....now a simple act of moving our embassy to another city we have angered these “extremist” groups. I gotta say, in most of my Sunday School classes they taught that God was LoVe for all. I’ve done some reading on other religions and that seems to be a common idea but when humans get involved it becomes a “my god is better than your god deal”.

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**filthflarnfilth** · 12-12-2017, 09:08 AM

Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it. The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God. It’s about to get crazy!

**NCRAVEN** · 12-12-2017, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities

Oh. Well, I wouldn't say religious people are weak minded. And I would never say that there is no god either, though I would lean towards the absence of one (or several) as far as what we can scientifically determine, just because I think what we as humans can comprehend as far as the universe around us is minute. If we're still around as a species in 500 years, the things we will be able to determine probably make us all look a bit stupid today.

While I understand your point I don't think science will be able to tell us too much more. Science can currently only investigate natural things, because it's methods are from natural things. It's methods as great as they are will always be limited.

**CincyCat** · 12-12-2017, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities

Oh. Well, I wouldn't say religious people are weak minded. And I would never say that there is no god either, though I would lean towards the absence of one (or several) as far as what we can scientifically determine, just because I think what we as humans can comprehend as far as the universe around us is minute. If we're still around as a species in 500 years, the things we will be able to determine probably make us all look a bit stupid today.

I'll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FgSmdfRUus

**Dirt1** · 12-13-2017, 10:28 AM

I am actually surprised the Palestinians didn't come to this conclusion sooner. A nation has to be impartial to be an effective intermediary, and the US is not an impartial third party in negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians. So, some other country or countries (through the UN) will have to assume the mantle of mediator going forward.

Palestinian president says no role for U.S. in peace process

ISTANBUL — The Palestinian president said Wednesday his people will not accept any role for the United States in the Mideast peace process "from now on," following President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

The speech marked a significant shift in Abbas' approach toward the United States, after years of focusing on courting U.S. goodwill because of Washington's role as sole mediator in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Immediately after Trump's announcement last week, Abbas had said the U.S. effectively disqualified itself as a broker, but Wednesday's speech was more sharply worded and delivered to a global audience.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...process-294167