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  1. #37

    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed



    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I think Judon and Bowser will be good enough as they grow.
    >>>And Tim Williams and Z Smith

    I want an elite pass rusher among the interior DL.
    >>>I thought Willie Henry and Wormley were supposed to be inside rushers?

    Hypothetically, with such a deep RB class, I'd leave RB1 through RB3 on the board, if I knew I could could get a guy who could land on this list of top interior pass rushers (based on PRP, pass rush productivity, or pressures per snap (with sacks added in and weighed the heaviest)):




    Our best guy is Pierce, ranked #48.
    Not even close to getting the job done.

    Off the top of my head, about 2/3s of these guys were acquired outside of Round 1.
    I think we're well set:
    Outside rushers: Judon, Bowser, Tim Williams
    Inside rushers: Willie Henry, Wormley (at least I thought that was the plan?)
    Not much really matters, and the rest doesn't matter at all.





  2. #38

    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    The Patriots got away with it because they had Tom Brady. Seahawks, Broncos, Giants, Packers, Steelers all had elite pass rushers at the time of their SB wins.

    I know it is ironic that we did not actuallly have any elite pass rushers, mainly because of the way our offense and infact defense (until the 2nd half of the SB) performed down the stretch. But recent history would show that SB champs more times than not have had elite pass rushers. Teams who do not have had QBs playing at a ridiculous level, which we are a million miles away from atm clearly.
    Seattles entire Defense was elite during their superbowl run, along with a solid/average oline and Two #1 WRs and an Elite RB.

    That seattle team talent wise was completely insane.

    I think we have to figure out what we want to be as a defense. Do we want to be aggressive blitzing/attacking team, or do we try to copy what Seattle did, which would require would probably require us to switch to a 4-3 and reset the entire D line and LB positions.
    105 Receptions 849 Yards -Kyle Juszcyk

    37 receptions 525 yards. - Perriman





  3. #39

    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonravensfan View Post

    >>>And Tim Williams and Z Smith

    I want an elite pass rusher among the interior DL.
    >>>I thought Willie Henry and Wormley were supposed to be inside rushers?

    I think we're well set:
    Outside rushers: Judon, Bowser, Tim Williams
    Inside rushers: Willie Henry, Wormley (at least I thought that was the plan?)
    Yes indeed. Thank you...I completely neglected TWill, who's athletic profile I like a lot.
    ZSmith could be really good here, but he needs to get his damn head on straight.
    I think he may go the way of McPhee. A bit too early though...

    Wormley, Henry and Carl Davis before them were value picks at the time, and rotational guys to-date.
    Looking back, it's surprising that Ozzie left Atkins on the board, but I'm not going to revisit that. There's been tons of opportunities to correct that misjudgment.
    "The Ravens are not taking Jimmy Smith at 26!" -- Me, the day before the 2011 Draft

    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the 2015 Draft

    BP '17 (post Maclin rev): 65 of 115 for 1050 and 8

    @BigPlayReceiver





  4. #40

    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    The Patriots got away with it because they had Tom Brady. Seahawks, Broncos, Giants, Packers, Steelers all had elite pass rushers at the time of their SB wins.

    I know it is ironic that we did not actuallly have any elite pass rushers, mainly because of the way our offense and infact defense (until the 2nd half of the SB) performed down the stretch. But recent history would show that SB champs more times than not have had elite pass rushers. Teams who do not have had QBs playing at a ridiculous level, which we are a million miles away from atm clearly.
    Come on man, the Seahawks didn't have any rusher have more than 8.5 sacks...I'll guarantee we'll have one or 2 guys make that mark...nobody was elite although they had some good ones. Saints didn't have an elite pass rusher. We didn't in 2012. Out of the last 9 SB champions, 5 didn't have elite pass rushers IMHO, 4 did. I don't think that makes it a requirement.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.





  5. Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonravensfan View Post
    I think we're well set:
    Outside rushers: Judon, Bowser, Tim Williams
    Inside rushers: Willie Henry, Wormley (at least I thought that was the plan?)
    Wasn't Bronson drafted to be an inside rusher as well? I had the most hope with him, fast for his size, even played olb in college. He has been worse than Wormley lol. Biggest issue, coaching.





  6. #42

    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    I don't think an "elite" pass rusher is a "must have." Two above average guys will do the job. I believe we have -- or meant to have -- several above average guys. But Pees . . .
    Not much really matters, and the rest doesn't matter at all.





  7. #43
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    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    I'm willing to give TWill a fair shot at being a "see ball, get ball" guy on the edge. MAYBE he rounds out to being a 3down OLB...but based on what I've seen, he's a pass rusher.

    As to the draft, staying where they are (mid-teens), I can very easily see Rd 1 being an OL...2 a WR....3 an RB & TE, 4 an ILB...5 a WR double dip, and 6 a BPA.
    "CARPE LOMBARDI"





  8. #44

    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Sorry offense bros... but I would not rule out drafting an elite type pass rusher in the 1st rd in 2018.

    Ive been a long time fan of Suggs and think he doesn't get enough credit for what he does here. Lots of posters I've seen are down on him because he hasn't taken ovee this team the way Ray did. Suggs was never going to be that guy. He is still a good player though and still has a good shot at the HOF. But he is what he is at his age... a very good edge setter and a decent pass rusher. He isn't a pass rusher that can take over games week in week out like he used to.

    I like Judon, Bowser and Williams... but I don't know if any of those guys will become a Von Miller or a Khalil mack which is what this defense needs. Williams I see being a very good paas rusher, but not someone who you can play on every downs. I see Judon and Bowser as complimentary pieces opposite a great pass rusher.

    The defense is now finally set in the secondary after four years of trying to build it up with lots of set backs along the way. I think the run defense is fine, I just think Pees was to blame for teams running on us earliee on this season. Now we need that pass rusher who can terrify the edges.

    I would rather go offense in rd 1... i really like Quenton Nelson and think the OL needs to be revamped somewhat. But he is not guaranteed to be on the clock when we're picking. But the WRs in this class don't look strong... and most of the TEs seem tk bw rd 2 type prospects. So id rather take a pass rusher in rd 1 over drafting a lesser prospect for the sake of trying to improve an offense to appease the masses.
    Tim Williams is the guy you are looking for. There is no sense in bringing in more players and not giving the talent you already have a shot. This guy was a steal by ozzie in the draft. He is better than bowser for sure. Sadly Harbaugh and Pees will play who they want to play or miss use the talent they have. Jameel McClain caught this teams attention by showing flashes of greatness as a pass rusher (what did they end up doing with him by the way? And does this sound like anyone else on the team currently?). Pernell McPhee showed flashes of greatness under Pagano then got buried in the depth chart under Pees. Dannell Ellerbe was clearly a superior ILB to McClain but was buried until injuries let him play during the sb run (even brenden ayenbedejo a special teams player for preference over ellerbe!). Paul Kruger was clearly superior to JJ imo. We were looking for help with a pash rush but kept an aging JJ on the field. Krugers talent went unnoticed till it was too late. John Simon was the definition of play like a raven. I actually predicted ozzie might draft him and he did! He never played for the ravens during his time here and now he is starting for the colts. Arthur Brown showed talent in college- he was arguably the best lb in the draft. I am convinced the coaching staff ruined him. Dennis Pitta put on a show at the combine - i knew this guy would be something special in the nfl, i was ecstatic when we still drafted him despite drafing a te before him. But he was buried behind a talent-less dickson for too long. Dickson did nothing to deserve playing time over pitta for those first 2-3 years other than the fact the coaching staff favored him and couldnt recognize talent. Pitta couldve been producing for us a long time ago at a time we needed help at TE if it wasnt for the incompetence of the staff.

    Not saying Tyus Bowser cant be a good role player, but imo yet another better player who has pro bowl pass rushing potential will be wasted on this team in Tim Williams, who was a healthy scratch regularly during this season.

    Ozzie can bring in talent but it sad to say that both he and harbs will be fired because harbaugh sucks. Its funny how Jim Harbaugh is his mirror opposite at evaluating talent.





  9. #45

    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    I don't give a shit how the board falls in 2018, the first pick better have WR, G, OT, C, RB, TE or QB next to his name. We don't need a pass rusher with Z Smith, Bowser, Judon and Tim Williams on the team. We need the offense to get first downs and score.





  10. #46
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    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    Seattles entire Defense was elite during their superbowl run, along with a solid/average oline and Two #1 WRs and an Elite RB.

    That seattle team talent wise was completely insane.

    I think we have to figure out what we want to be as a defense. Do we want to be aggressive blitzing/attacking team, or do we try to copy what Seattle did, which would require would probably require us to switch to a 4-3 and reset the entire D line and LB positions.
    Sorry but Seattles OL was not solid or anything close to it. They had a good LT and a C... the rest of those guys they had were James Hurst esque





  11. #47
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    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    Tbf I do think Tim Williams has an outside shot at becoming a Justin Houston





  12. #48
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    Re: Elite pass rusher is still needed

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    I don't give a shit how the board falls in 2018, the first pick better have WR, G, OT, C, RB, TE or QB next to his name. We don't need a pass rusher with Z Smith, Bowser, Judon and Tim Williams on the team. We need the offense to get first downs and score.
    C is assuming we don't re sign Jensen?





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