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Thread: Random thoughts

  1. #1
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    Random thoughts



    I just couldn't bear to check in with this board yesterday. Even today I still dread having to parse the same old bitterness we've been wading thru here, these past several months. Does anyone mind if I skip the existing threads, and just post some random thoughts, that are probably covered elsewhere? I'll start poking thru threads, I guess, but I wanted to note some things down first.


    1.
    The FWO got more ammunition for their point of view, I caught myself thinking, during one series in the first half. Maybe the 2nd or 3rd offensive series? On first down Mike Wallace failed to haul in the long bomb down the left sideline that was in his hands briefly; then on third down Ryan Jensen gave a bad snap and failed to pass-block effectively, leading to Joe being sacked, giving Jensen the rare "two bad plays in one snap". Ex & Co had to be thinking "SEE! WTF more can Joe do?!??"


    2.
    Alex Collins: the talent is real, and the fumbling problem is real. Holy shit that one big run of his is exactly what we need. Holy shit if he keeps putting the ball on the turf you can't keep him out there. The Ravens offensive situation is dire enough that he'll get another opportunity. But man, he needs to clean that shit up.
    (How nice would it be to have him and Dixon as our one-two punch this year?? Damn these injuries.)


    3.
    The O-line gave up interior pressure on Joe. I saw Hurst get plowed backward on one replay; I saw the Illuminator in at RG on one play and give up a "pass rush event", I forget what. This observation that the O-line isn't good tends to be a FWO argument, and it tends to be used to criticize Ozzie. "Ozzie didn't devote enough resources" etc. But from what I saw, most of the pressure events came from the INTERIOR O-line. The tackles played decently, for the most part. And the interior is the one area that Ozzie stocked! We lost our top 3 or 4 guards, depending on if you count Urschel.

    It's frustrating. But this is one thing that you can't blame Ozzie for, or Harbaugh. This line looks different if you add Alex Collins or Nico to it; certainly if you add Yanda.


    4.
    Joe's gotta play better. I don't care if you are in or out of the FWO, he can't throw INTs in 10 straight games. He can't stare down his receivers like that. He can't be slow like that. He can't sail passes like that. If this game provided ammo for the FWO, it also provided fodder for the Flacco haters.

    The Ravens O is sort of a Rorshach blot: you can see whatever you want to in it. The FWO sees justification for its arguments, and the Flacco-haters do too. Can we arrive at some sort of compromise? All of these things can be true at the same time: (a) there is not enough talent around Joe; (b) not all of that is bad planning by Ozzie/Harbaugh, a lot of it is injuries; (c) Joe is not doing all the things that are in his control to play as well as we need him to or as he should.


    5.
    JuJu Smith-Schuster, ugh. We didn't really have a chance at him, unless we passed on Bowser, and Bowser seems like a great player. Just, ugh.


    6.
    Did the D play "well"? I guess they did what they do: hold Pittsburgh to FGs, until the turnovers put them in bad spots. You can absolutely make the case that, if a Ravens offense shows up to this game, we win. But they gave up that 10-min drive in the first quarter. Bell had 185 yards from scrimmage. The backup RB averaged 6.5 ypc. Ben was only sacked once. The Ravens D did not "control" this game, at all.

    Not trying to "blame" the D, because the offense lost this game not the defense. But, this was not the dominant D that was advertised.


    7.
    The team that humiliated us in London, just lost to the Jets. The Jets! This season is fucking CRAZY so far, all around the league. Things will shake out and settle down, and we'll see where we're at. I'm not ready to write off the season yet.

    There were some signs of life yesterday. That deep ball to Wallace (that he dropped): that was a good play design and an open receiver and a catchable ball. That long run by Collins was electric. (Is it just me, or does the O-line seem to "perk up" and block with more vigor when Collins is carrying?) We did some 4- and 5-receiver sets and ran some sugar huddle. I feel like Joe threw it a little deeper this game, than earlier in the season.


    Ha, the Ravens offensive Rorshach blot comes into play here too. If you believe that the offense was going to be a "work in progress" for the first ~month of the season, while Joe worked himself back into shape and conducted his own personal training camp, then you could find some positives yesterda to infer that things are improving. If you believe that the unit is a joke, too hapless to put 10 points on the board at home against any half-decent defense; well, there's plenty of evidence for that too. We look at the same things and see what we expect to see.





  2. #2

    Re: Random thoughts

    Good stuff as always
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.





  3. #3

    Re: Random thoughts

    Your Rosrasch test, seeing what you want to see is a good point. (
    Of course just means that there is a lot of criticism to put to a lot of areas.

    What I see is an offense that simply must execute perfectly to score. They cannot overcome any kind of error, like a drop, or a penalty, or an overthrow, or missed block. No playmakers at all, and an overall pretty poor offensive line.

    What I see is a defense that is too much bend don't break to go with a impotent offense. I mean, if you are going to invest that much in the defense, my goodness they have to be excellent. And attack and not react.





  4. #4
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    Re: Random thoughts

    The FWO has about 3 members left





  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Re: Random thoughts

    Excellent points, and many that I can adopt as my own.

    Looking at it as presented is enough to have me shaking my head about this season. There are way too many areas of concern to be able to fix in a season - or even for the next three years without a massive reboot. Regardless of the reason this Offense does not look like it will be effective this season; and a Defense that cannot stop a ten-minute drive will not survive long in a game.
    Captain Offense





  6. #6

    Re: Random thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    I just couldn't bear to check in with this board yesterday. Even today I still dread having to parse the same old bitterness we've been wading thru here, these past several months. Does anyone mind if I skip the existing threads, and just post some random thoughts, that are probably covered elsewhere? I'll start poking thru threads, I guess, but I wanted to note some things down first.


    1.
    The FWO got more ammunition for their point of view, I caught myself thinking, during one series in the first half. Maybe the 2nd or 3rd offensive series? On first down Mike Wallace failed to haul in the long bomb down the left sideline that was in his hands briefly; then on third down Ryan Jensen gave a bad snap and failed to pass-block effectively, leading to Joe being sacked, giving Jensen the rare "two bad plays in one snap". Ex & Co had to be thinking "SEE! WTF more can Joe do?!??"


    2.
    Alex Collins: the talent is real, and the fumbling problem is real. Holy shit that one big run of his is exactly what we need. Holy shit if he keeps putting the ball on the turf you can't keep him out there. The Ravens offensive situation is dire enough that he'll get another opportunity. But man, he needs to clean that shit up.
    (How nice would it be to have him and Dixon as our one-two punch this year?? Damn these injuries.)


    3.
    The O-line gave up interior pressure on Joe. I saw Hurst get plowed backward on one replay; I saw the Illuminator in at RG on one play and give up a "pass rush event", I forget what. This observation that the O-line isn't good tends to be a FWO argument, and it tends to be used to criticize Ozzie. "Ozzie didn't devote enough resources" etc. But from what I saw, most of the pressure events came from the INTERIOR O-line. The tackles played decently, for the most part. And the interior is the one area that Ozzie stocked! We lost our top 3 or 4 guards, depending on if you count Urschel.

    It's frustrating. But this is one thing that you can't blame Ozzie for, or Harbaugh. This line looks different if you add Alex Collins or Nico to it; certainly if you add Yanda.


    4.
    Joe's gotta play better. I don't care if you are in or out of the FWO, he can't throw INTs in 10 straight games. He can't stare down his receivers like that. He can't be slow like that. He can't sail passes like that. If this game provided ammo for the FWO, it also provided fodder for the Flacco haters.

    The Ravens O is sort of a Rorshach blot: you can see whatever you want to in it. The FWO sees justification for its arguments, and the Flacco-haters do too. Can we arrive at some sort of compromise? All of these things can be true at the same time: (a) there is not enough talent around Joe; (b) not all of that is bad planning by Ozzie/Harbaugh, a lot of it is injuries; (c) Joe is not doing all the things that are in his control to play as well as we need him to or as he should.


    5.
    JuJu Smith-Schuster, ugh. We didn't really have a chance at him, unless we passed on Bowser, and Bowser seems like a great player. Just, ugh.


    6.
    Did the D play "well"? I guess they did what they do: hold Pittsburgh to FGs, until the turnovers put them in bad spots. You can absolutely make the case that, if a Ravens offense shows up to this game, we win. But they gave up that 10-min drive in the first quarter. Bell had 185 yards from scrimmage. The backup RB averaged 6.5 ypc. Ben was only sacked once. The Ravens D did not "control" this game, at all.

    Not trying to "blame" the D, because the offense lost this game not the defense. But, this was not the dominant D that was advertised.


    7.
    The team that humiliated us in London, just lost to the Jets. The Jets! This season is fucking CRAZY so far, all around the league. Things will shake out and settle down, and we'll see where we're at. I'm not ready to write off the season yet.

    There were some signs of life yesterday. That deep ball to Wallace (that he dropped): that was a good play design and an open receiver and a catchable ball. That long run by Collins was electric. (Is it just me, or does the O-line seem to "perk up" and block with more vigor when Collins is carrying?) We did some 4- and 5-receiver sets and ran some sugar huddle. I feel like Joe threw it a little deeper this game, than earlier in the season.


    Ha, the Ravens offensive Rorshach blot comes into play here too. If you believe that the offense was going to be a "work in progress" for the first ~month of the season, while Joe worked himself back into shape and conducted his own personal training camp, then you could find some positives yesterda to infer that things are improving. If you believe that the unit is a joke, too hapless to put 10 points on the board at home against any half-decent defense; well, there's plenty of evidence for that too. We look at the same things and see what we expect to see.
    JAGS everywhere... No playmakers on offense or defense. Ray rice is the last guy we drafted who was a real playmaker.

    Bad, stale, old, inflexible coaching.

    Our QB has been David Carr'ed..... He's got no one open to throw to, he has no time, and when he does and gets in a rhythm...we end up shooting ourselves in the foot someone.

    its time for a rebuild front office to practice squad





  7. #7

    Re: Random thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    JAGS everywhere... No playmakers on offense or defense. Ray rice is the last guy we drafted who was a real playmaker.

    Bad, stale, old, inflexible coaching.

    Our QB has been David Carr'ed..... He's got no one open to throw to, he has no time, and when he does and gets in a rhythm...we end up shooting ourselves in the foot someone.

    its time for a rebuild front office to practice squad
    - O-Line is what it is at this point, and it's not good. The only way we survive this year is with a 50/50 balanced offense, and be as unpredictable as possible. Passing on first down. Mix in a lot of draw plays on third and long or Joe will get killed.

    - Ride Alex Collins. Yes, he needs to correct the fumbling. However, he is our most dangerous offensive weapon right now and we must take the pressure off Joe Flacco. Give him 20 carries a game and see what he produces. Can't have the defense just pinning their ears back with our crappy O-Line because they don't respect the West or Allen as runners. Establishing Collins may be our only hope this year for the offense.





  8. #8
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    Re: Random thoughts

    There is no need for the fWo to compromise, because our stance has been falsely represented. We have never claimed that Joe Flacco was not a part of the problem, outside of a few bullshit jokes. That is other posters using hyperbole and being very black and white, for the simple fact that we heavily support him. Every week he plays bad, one of us admit it and then we see a dozen posts about how we never do it. Simply, because we won't say that he is the main problem and that we want him benched.

    Once again, for anyone who has missed it any other time we've put it out there, this is the Flacco World Order's stance on the man himself.

    Our frustration, more so than who he now is as a QB, is why. We have yet to see any QB in the league, perform well with the complete myriad of issues facing this offense, from coaching to philosophy to talent. It's not merely bad pass catchers, or a bad scheme. There are at least a half dozen other issues. Nobody is going to succeed under those circumstances. There are no examples of it. None. We have all said, that if we were to see Joe Flacco in better circumstances and still perform poorly, that we would be first in line to rip him a new one. However, with so many issues going on, we see a guy who we are fortunate to see play as well as he has in big games up to this point anyway. We feel that, with the way this team approaches offense, they should be thankful to even have that second title and 6 playoff appearances (0 one and dones) in a seven year span. Thus, while we think he is a problem, he is much farther down the list for us, compared to the other issues facing this offense.

    When the discussion to replace him arises, fans quickly forget that, as mentioned earlier in this very thread, this offense has to perform perfectly to even move the ball. They can't overcome, even the most minute mistakes. To put another QB into that situation, you need to still completely change the way you approach building an offense. So, we feel that you might as well do that now with the guy whose shown he can make things happen when you at least get noticeable talent around him.

    If we were to see Joe Flacco in a situation like Andy Dalton was, with the pass protection he had early in his career, the pass catchers he's had, the quality and stabilizing coaching and scheme fit, only to continue to perform bad, we'd rip into Flacco. If we were to see Flacco in an Atlanta type offense and not score 30 PPG, we'd rip into him.

    Our issue is that the current state of this offense is so far away from that or any other well known offense that we feel he is just far from the biggest problem.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  9. #9
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    Re: Random thoughts

    I'm sick and tired of this shit show.





  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Re: Random thoughts

    Not a defense or condemnation of Joe, but if you constantly give up interior pressure, he WILL suck. He will not and cannot step into throws with guys in his lap every play. If the line plays decent and keeps the pressure off, Flacco will play OK (not saying great, but based on first two games, I'm saying OK and adequate enough to win. W's are what matters). If the lines plays like a steaming pile, well, you get what you saw yesterday and last week. I think the evidence is there over the years to say that, for the most part, as the OL goes, so goes Joe.





  11. #11

    Re: Random thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    There is no need for the fWo to compromise, because our stance has been falsely represented. We have never claimed that Joe Flacco was not a part of the problem, outside of a few bullshit jokes. That is other posters using hyperbole and being very black and white, for the simple fact that we heavily support him. Every week he plays bad, one of us admit it and then we see a dozen posts about how we never do it. Simply, because we won't say that he is the main problem and that we want him benched.

    Once again, for anyone who has missed it any other time we've put it out there, this is the Flacco World Order's stance on the man himself.

    Our frustration, more so than who he now is as a QB, is why. We have yet to see any QB in the league, perform well with the complete myriad of issues facing this offense, from coaching to philosophy to talent. It's not merely bad pass catchers, or a bad scheme. There are at least a half dozen other issues. Nobody is going to succeed under those circumstances. There are no examples of it. None. We have all said, that if we were to see Joe Flacco in better circumstances and still perform poorly, that we would be first in line to rip him a new one. However, with so many issues going on, we see a guy who we are fortunate to see play as well as he has in big games up to this point anyway. We feel that, with the way this team approaches offense, they should be thankful to even have that second title and 6 playoff appearances (0 one and dones) in a seven year span. Thus, while we think he is a problem, he is much farther down the list for us, compared to the other issues facing this offense.

    When the discussion to replace him arises, fans quickly forget that, as mentioned earlier in this very thread, this offense has to perform perfectly to even move the ball. They can't overcome, even the most minute mistakes. To put another QB into that situation, you need to still completely change the way you approach building an offense. So, we feel that you might as well do that now with the guy whose shown he can make things happen when you at least get noticeable talent around him.

    If we were to see Joe Flacco in a situation like Andy Dalton was, with the pass protection he had early in his career, the pass catchers he's had, the quality and stabilizing coaching and scheme fit, only to continue to perform bad, we'd rip into Flacco. If we were to see Flacco in an Atlanta type offense and not score 30 PPG, we'd rip into him.

    Our issue is that the current state of this offense is so far away from that or any other well known offense that we feel he is just far from the biggest problem.
    Agree. I just want an "average offense" lol...people acting like we want the NO Saints or Kurt Warner Rams





  12. #12
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    Re: Random thoughts

    Joe is a pocket passer. It's not rocket science. Eli is a pocket passer. Brady is a pocket passer. Brees is a pocket passer. They aren't running around fifty times a game extending plays. They need to be kept clean. If you don't, they'll go to shit fast. That's why New Orleans has always invested high quality pieces into their interior line and not just plain 'pieces', because they know this.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





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