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  1. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,283

    Re: And so it begins



    Quote Originally Posted by MyTurn View Post
    Ok. Then I'll state it as fact and you can point out how I'm wrong. You believe that any time an officer believes there is a person holding a gun they are justified in using lethal force to kill them.
    If they refuse a command to drop it then yes, fire away.
    I want a Flacco jersey! Johnny Bench wore #5





  2. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Clayton,NC
    Posts
    9,076

    Re: And so it begins

    Quote Originally Posted by MyTurn View Post
    Ok. Then I'll state it as fact and you can point out how I'm wrong. You believe that any time an officer believes there is a person holding a gun they are justified in using lethal force to kill them.
    As a blanket statement, no. Each case is different and depends on the circumstances.





  3. #27

    Re: And so it begins

    Quote Originally Posted by MyTurn View Post
    Yes but I fail to see how that's relevant. A policeman who has been trained to use a weapon shoots a 12 year old on a playground after hearing no shots, no report of injury, and the only report is that there's a kid pointing a weapon at people. I would expect that someone who has been trained on weapons might have reasoned that a 12 year old a playground might not have a real gun. At the very least a non-lethal form of weapon would have been employed by the officer.

    I guess for a counterpoint the officer had already had emotional issues and his handling of weapons was "dismal" as determined by the police so maybe he shouldn't have been a policeman in the first place. At the end of the day it appears he did nothing wrong because he was never convicted.
    The fact that he was a 12-year old on a playground doesn't mean anything anymore. Kids have been caught bringing real guns into schools.

    From what I understand, the officers told him to show them his hands, but he appeared to pull out the gun. Now, I don't know if he was just pulling his hands out of his pockets or if he was actually pulling the gun out. If he was indeed just pulling his hands out of his pockets, then the officers should've been prosecuted (even if it had been a real gun). If he had the gun in his hand while pulling his hands out, it's a different story.

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  4. Re: And so it begins

    The person that called 911 on Tamir Rice did mention that it might have been a kid with a toy, but they weren't sure.
    The 911 dispatcher, a black woman, failed to relay this information to the responding officers, for which she was disciplined.
    From a distance, you can't tell that gun is fake or a toy. Even up close, it looks very real--I've seen the pictures of it up close. And you can't assume it's a fake because if it isn't, and the suspect starts shooting, you've now endangered both the public and yourself/partner.
    You give the suspect a chance to surrender, but if they move in a way that indicates a potential danger, like raising/pointing their gun at you or someone else, you open fire to end the threat. If you wait until there's gunfire, then you've waited too long and you've failed to do your job correctly. Someone innocent could now die because of your hesitation.

    As for Tamir being 12, that doesn't matter. Plenty of 12 year olds join gangs or embrace the "thuglife", and you couldn't tell that he was 12 from a distance anyway, not in that hoodie he was wearing.





  5. #29

    Re: And so it begins

    Quote Originally Posted by MyTurn View Post
    Your premise is interesting. Because people are found not guilty all the time that nothing should change. If your point is that because a jury did not convict a policeman and therefore the system is working as it should then, well, there's no reasoning with you. You can see multiple videos of policemen shooting unarmed people and come to the conclusion that there's nothing wrong with the system.

    I do agree, no meeting with the FOP is going to change anything. There have to be consequences to shooting unarmed people and if you are a policeman there are no consequences. The FOP has no interest in changing that and they would oppose it if it ever was suggested. Because people like you can accept this fact, the system doesn't change so you have black men worried about themselves, friends, and family peacefully protesting by kneeling when worshiping symbols of America. Everyone is complaining about that being disrespectful but somehow a policeman killing a 12 year old for being in a playground with a toy gun is just bad luck.

    The ultimate irony of your response is that you turned it around to people being too lazy to police their own community when the protests are about the policeman coming into the community shooting unarmed citizens with no consequences.
    What I'm saying is we live in an imperfect world with an imperfect justice system the rest of us manage to go on with our lives without turning every miscarriage of justice or perceived miscarriage of justice as a march in selma moment.

    At some point these people need to act as adults and realize the world is complicated. The rice example you gave earlier is a perfect example. I would characterize that shooting as justified. As would the Micheal Brown shooting.

    There are some I don't think are but thats not my call. We have laws. We don't as a mob throw people in jail because we think they are guilty we throw them in jail because the law and a jury of their peers decide they are.

    If you want to change things I'm open to listening and if it's a good idea I'll support it. The body camera and increased training in non-lethal force are great examples of this but if all you want to do is act out like a spoiled brat while having no idea how to solve the very things you are protesting then sorry I have no time for you.
    Last edited by boller4president; 10-01-2017 at 10:45 PM.





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