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  1. #37

    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K



    Quote Originally Posted by trailhiker85 View Post
    That's how I feel. They shouldn't even think of touching Joe's deal for the next two years. If he plays lights out, hey, he's still under contract through 2021. If not, they can consider moving on around 2020. Extending him any sooner would just hamstring the cap in future years.
    I think this contract was structured pretty clearly so that we really don't have to touch it at all if we don't want to, and it very well may be his last one on this team.

    His cap numbers never really balloon that much on a YoY basis, so you don't have to worry about a restructure or extension to create significant cap room.

    4 more years is the way I see it. After the 2020 season, you draft a QB, and you decide whether Joe is here or not. He has zero dead money on his deal for the 2021 season.

    If he craps out sooner in like 2019 or 2020, you can still move on with significant cap savings.





  2. #38

    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K

    Quote Originally Posted by CopRaven View Post
    Wow, in 2020 Jimmy, Yanda, Weddle, Stanley, Young and Tucker all have expiring contracts. Though Stanley has an option year.
    Its the entire 2016 draft class plus some key veterans. Obviously Yanda will be gone by that point, but if your 2016 draft class is as good as it looks right now, you'll have even tougher decisions. Alex Lewis, Matt Judon, etc.

    Obviously way too early for extension talks for guys who have only played one season, but there's at least 3-4 guys in this draft class who I could see being good enough to get lucrative long-term extensions. The likelihood of us retaining all of them isn't great, but its definitely a different class than some of the one's we've seen recently.

    With Stanley, he would get an extension that offseason most likely. If he's good, he's not getting a chance to get to FA. First round picks that pan out for this team almost always get large long term deals.





  3. #39

    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Who's up for an extension next year? Mosely? Anybody else? If I were the Ravens, I'd be very, very frugal in UFA next year...extend Mosely, not sure who else is ready for extension time.

    They are staring at probably $20-23 million in space, I'd want to carry as much over the following year as possible to give us some breathing room when it comes to the cap in 2019.
    Would you resign Mosely if you knew Pees was still here, and the changing rules of the NFL. He's a great player, and would be signed to almost any team, but if he continues to be stagnant or regress is he worth a huge deal for our team





  4. #40

    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    Would you resign Mosely if you knew Pees was still here, and the changing rules of the NFL. He's a great player, and would be signed to almost any team, but if he continues to be stagnant or regress is he worth a huge deal for our team
    Just depends on the size of the deal. I don't think he would get Wagner/Kuechly kind of money. Depending on what the cap looks like an the market for ILB's, I'd guess he could get like $8-9M a year.

    At that price tag, given the expected salary cap space and the no real desire or need for any other long term extensions for drafted players, I'd lock him up at that price for certain.

    I could see if you're in a major cap crunch and can't afford it, but I doubt that's the case. And if you're going to let him go, then you damn well better spend the money incredibly wisely elsewhere.

    I don't expect this to happen. Harbaugh is pretty much already on record as saying he expects Mosley to be here for a long time.





  5. #41

    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K

    Quote Originally Posted by bravens23 View Post
    Just depends on the size of the deal. I don't think he would get Wagner/Kuechly kind of money. Depending on what the cap looks like an the market for ILB's, I'd guess he could get like $8-9M a year.

    At that price tag, given the expected salary cap space and the no real desire or need for any other long term extensions for drafted players, I'd lock him up at that price for certain.

    I could see if you're in a major cap crunch and can't afford it, but I doubt that's the case. And if you're going to let him go, then you damn well better spend the money incredibly wisely elsewhere.

    I don't expect this to happen. Harbaugh is pretty much already on record as saying he expects Mosley to be here for a long time.
    Even though I agree with your premise, we have to stop setting ourselves up like this. If Mosley stays healthy and on the same trajectory, of course he will get a massive deal. This looks very similar to the beginning of the discussions we were having about BWill. Every year the cap increases. Every player/agent is looking at the last big contract signed as a starting point. Mosley already has 2 pro-bowls under his belt and was a close runner up for DROY. He has name recognition outside of Baltimore. He will get a top market deal, either from the Ravens or whichever bottom dwelling team needs to spend money to reach the salary floor.

    Current ILB yearly salaries:

    Luke Kuechly - 12.3 million
    Wagner - 10.7 million
    Bowman - 10.5 million
    Christian Kirksey(CLE) - 9.5 million
    Hightower - 8.9 million
    Cushing - 8.8 miilion
    Marshall - 8 million

    Barring a major injury, if you really believe that 2 years from now Mosley and his agent are going to take less than 11 million a year, I think you are going to be extremely disappointed.





  6. #42

    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    Even though I agree with your premise, we have to stop setting ourselves up like this. If Mosley stays healthy and on the same trajectory, of course he will get a massive deal. This looks very similar to the beginning of the discussions we were having about BWill. Every year the cap increases. Every player/agent is looking at the last big contract signed as a starting point. Mosley already has 2 pro-bowls under his belt and was a close runner up for DROY. He has name recognition outside of Baltimore. He will get a top market deal, either from the Ravens or whichever bottom dwelling team needs to spend money to reach the salary floor.

    Current ILB yearly salaries:

    Luke Kuechly - 12.3 million
    Wagner - 10.7 million
    Bowman - 10.5 million
    Christian Kirksey(CLE) - 9.5 million
    Hightower - 8.9 million
    Cushing - 8.8 miilion
    Marshall - 8 million

    Barring a major injury, if you really believe that 2 years from now Mosley and his agent are going to take less than 11 million a year, I think you are going to be extremely disappointed.
    But again, several factors you're not considering:

    1. I don't know why the Brandon Williams deal is being benchmarked here, as the deal he got was pretty much right in line with the deal most expected to him to get a year ago. Once the Giants paid up for a run stopping DT, everybody knew what the market was for literally a top player.

    2. Neither Mosley or his agent really have that kind of power to determine that price tag 2 years from now. We don't know what the cap will be, and more importantly, we don't know how NFL teams will react to that position. There are several positions who's salaries have not raised at the level with the inflation of the salary cap. If there continues to be a lack of emphasis on this position in certain areas (which is why we're having this discussion), then its entirely possible the market for said players simply remains flat.

    3. Most of this depends on how well Mosley plays the next couple years. If he remains at the same level he is at now, then it will be a tough sell for him to get $11M a year, because he just doesn't comp in that range of players. Maybe its possible a bottom dwelling team pays for him at that level, but then again, that doesn't really happen that often.

    There's a false perception that teams with a ton of cap space just destroy markets with these contracts. That doesn't really happen that often. In most cases, its actually the team that IS a contender that has significant cap space that does that. If it were as easy as "team with all the money buys everybody", then teams like Jacksonville and Cleveland wouldn't suck ever year, because they'd just buy the top 5 players in FA every year. But that doesn't happen.

    As is always the case, the AAV really doesn't matter that much anyway. Contract length and guaranteed money is what matters, and agents know this as well. So he could sign for $15M a year for 5 years, but if we're only guaranteeing a year of it, it really doesn't mean anything.





  7. #43

    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K

    Quote Originally Posted by bravens23 View Post
    But again, several factors you're not considering:

    1. I don't know why the Brandon Williams deal is being benchmarked here, as the deal he got was pretty much right in line with the deal most expected to him to get a year ago. Once the Giants paid up for a run stopping DT, everybody knew what the market was for literally a top player.

    I mentioned Brandon because many fans here were of the impression he would sign for a certain number and when he didn't, many fans groaned that the ravens overpaid for him. Yes, the Giants paying up affected that, but also the fact that the Ravens valued his position and surely other teams did as well helped his numbers.

    2. Neither Mosley or his agent really have that kind of power to determine that price tag 2 years from now. We don't know what the cap will be, and more importantly, we don't know how NFL teams will react to that position. There are several positions who's salaries have not raised at the level with the inflation of the salary cap. If there continues to be a lack of emphasis on this position in certain areas (which is why we're having this discussion), then its entirely possible the market for said players simply remains flat.

    Agreed, it is entirely possible that ILB becomes the next position to suffer stagnation...it is also possible that it doesn't. What is almost a certainty is that the cap will go up. So even if the market for ILBs remains "flat", his contract relative to the cap and the other players at the top of his position still points to a higher number than 8-9 mil per year IMO.

    3. Most of this depends on how well Mosley plays the next couple years. If he remains at the same level he is at now, then it will be a tough sell for him to get $11M a year, because he just doesn't comp in that range of players. Maybe its possible a bottom dwelling team pays for him at that level, but then again, that doesn't really happen that often.

    The level he is at now is a 2-time pro bowler. I find it hard to believe that if at the time of negotiation, a 26/27 year old, 3 possibly 4 time pro-bowler by then, will find it a tough sell to get into the 11 mil range. Now if he falls off a cliff, or suffers a major injury, different story. But if he plays the next 2 years on par with how he's played his first 3 years, then there is likely another pro-bowl nod coming.

    There's a false perception that teams with a ton of cap space just destroy markets with these contracts. That doesn't really happen that often. In most cases, its actually the team that IS a contender that has significant cap space that does that. If it were as easy as "team with all the money buys everybody", then teams like Jacksonville and Cleveland wouldn't suck ever year, because they'd just buy the top 5 players in FA every year. But that doesn't happen.

    What I'm referring to is that every year there seems to be 2 or 3 teams with a ton of cap space. Sometime bottom dwellers, sometimes not. Then there are also teams that think they are a player away, who also happen to have cap space during certain years. Between those 3 to 4 teams, plus the team a player already plays for, it creates enough of a market that smart agents can play them against each other to the maximum benefit of the player. If the ravens are the only team interested in signing Mosley two years from now, then of course they can offer whatever they think is "fair". But if just one other team like him too, then the "market" dictates what he can make. I believe that number will be closer to the top of the ILB market than it will be to the middle based on his age and career performance so far.

    As is always the case, the AAV really doesn't matter that much anyway. Contract length and guaranteed money is what matters, and agents know this as well. So he could sign for $15M a year for 5 years, but if we're only guaranteeing a year of it, it really doesn't mean anything.
    Inline responses above - good discussion brother





  8. #44
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    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K

    Quote Originally Posted by bravens23 View Post
    Just depends on the size of the deal. I don't think he would get Wagner/Kuechly kind of money. Depending on what the cap looks like an the market for ILB's, I'd guess he could get like $8-9M a year.

    At that price tag, given the expected salary cap space and the no real desire or need for any other long term extensions for drafted players, I'd lock him up at that price for certain.

    I could see if you're in a major cap crunch and can't afford it, but I doubt that's the case. And if you're going to let him go, then you damn well better spend the money incredibly wisely elsewhere.

    I don't expect this to happen. Harbaugh is pretty much already on record as saying he expects Mosley to be here for a long time.
    Hes on defense he will be resigned if he was on offense we would let him walk





  9. #45

    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    Even though I agree with your premise, we have to stop setting ourselves up like this. If Mosley stays healthy and on the same trajectory, of course he will get a massive deal. This looks very similar to the beginning of the discussions we were having about BWill. Every year the cap increases. Every player/agent is looking at the last big contract signed as a starting point. Mosley already has 2 pro-bowls under his belt and was a close runner up for DROY. He has name recognition outside of Baltimore. He will get a top market deal, either from the Ravens or whichever bottom dwelling team needs to spend money to reach the salary floor.

    Current ILB yearly salaries:

    Luke Kuechly - 12.3 million
    Wagner - 10.7 million
    Bowman - 10.5 million
    Christian Kirksey(CLE) - 9.5 million
    Hightower - 8.9 million
    Cushing - 8.8 miilion
    Marshall - 8 million

    Barring a major injury, if you really believe that 2 years from now Mosley and his agent are going to take less than 11 million a year, I think you are going to be extremely disappointed.
    This is what I was thinking, Sorry I didnt give such a great analysis like Rygar. For a deal like this, is a MLB that fits football better 5 years ago than the next 5 years (better coverage skills) worth the price tag for this defense (Assuming we stick we bland schemes)





  10. #46

    Re: UPDATE: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $845K

    Quote Originally Posted by CopRaven View Post
    Wow, in 2020 Jimmy, Yanda, Weddle, Stanley, Young and Tucker all have expiring contracts. Though Stanley has an option year.
    And by then, Yanda, Wallace, and Suggs will be off the books. Weddle will be 35, so his cap number will go down IF we choose to re-sign him. I doubt Jimmy will be more expensive either, unless he plays up to his potential and stays healthy. And we will have some flexibility with Joe at that point. That is all of the top five cap hits currently on the team.

    And we will be adding another 21+ cheap players to the roster through the draft over that time. As long as we manage to find some good ones, 2020 will take care of itself.
    "Leave. Your. Mark."





  11. #47

    Re: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $4.34M

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven View Post
    Mr Mangold, come on down

    Quote Originally Posted by Goode05 View Post
    100%


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Cap constraints aside, I just don't see this happening. He's a FA, been in for a visit, and no comp-pick issues to worry about. If he was gonna sign, he would have already. I think he's either still hurt or looking for a more desperate team to pay him without conditions. Whichever it is, I don't think the Ravens are his huckleberry.





  12. #48

    Re: If The Season Started Today Ravens' Cap Space Would be $4.34M

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    Cap constraints aside, I just don't see this happening. He's a FA, been in for a visit, and no comp-pick issues to worry about. If he was gonna sign, he would have already. I think he's either still hurt or looking for a more desperate team to pay him without conditions. Whichever it is, I don't think the Ravens are his huckleberry.
    What motivation does Mangold have to sign now? He's a vet who wants one last check and has no interest in, nor need to, go through OTAs and Training Camp.

    If this signing happens it'll be near the start of preseason. The fact that we haven't heard anything means nothing.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk





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