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  1. #49

    Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB



    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Huh?

    No offense, but: that's one of the most absurd statements I've ever seen posted in the 18 (?) year history of this and predecessor message boards!

    Unitas was the gold standard of NFL QBs for decades. I believe that, even today, most sportswriters would put him up there with Brady & Montana, maybe Elway.

    I love what Joe has done for this franchise, and praise him for his performance in the 2012 playoffs, but, honestly, he's not on the same planet as the great Johnny U.

    It's honestly impossible to compare players of such different eras. Could Bert or Johnny take hits from 270 lb backers running 4.4s ? Who knows back in Johnnys day what did a d lineman go 245? Also why stats are so misleading. Obviously Johnny had a hell of a coach to allow him to be able to usher in the modern passing offense. A bo scembeckler type coach would have never allowed that. Same as John Elway stats were held back by Dan Reeves. If you could somehow put a in his prime Johnny U next to Joe it would be laughable how much more physically gifted Joe is. He was 6-1 194 pounds he would be damn lucky to make a qtr out alive in the modern game.





  2. #50
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    Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    That's a poor argument that still doesn't hold water. Unitas was one of the top QBs, if not THE top QB in his era. Flacco is arguably a top 10 QB in his era. It's still not even close.
    Never get in a fight with a pig; you both get muddy, and the pig likes it...






  3. #51

    Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    That's a poor argument that still doesn't hold water. Unitas was one of the top QBs, if not THE top QB in his era. Flacco is arguably a top 10 QB in his era. It's still not even close.
    I'm certainly not saying Joe is better then Johnny I'm just saying it's nearly impossible to compare such different eras. That's way before my time hell he was inducted into the hof the year I was born. Did defenses even play zone back then? (Honest question for the older fellas). But I know you couldn't switch the two out. I'm guessing at 6-6 245 Flacco would have looked like a monster and at 6-1 195 Johnny U would have never made it through a pre season.


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  4. #52
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    Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Again, Unitas is a class by himself, an iconic QB from a different era and to remind the youngins, Unitas gave the NFL and identity as a national sport when baseball was the National pastime, and in so doing put Baltimore on the map as a legit sports town when the Orioles were still in diapers. Most of the Colts if not all, worked full time jobs leaving little time to train, practice, etc. Some I heard worked at Bethlehem Steel, some did carpentry. Athletes today are groomed from childhood, sports science, diets, training............ It's like comparing Lombardi to Harbaugh, just kidding Lombardi to Belichek.

    Joe Flacco can be a first ballot HOF'er and never be what Unitas was for the early NFL and Baltimore being showcased on the national stage.

    I just want to appreciate Flacco for who he is and get him some godam receivers that can effing catch, and coaching continuity.
    "Give Pees a chance, again", and 50 points in a 50 minute game .





  5. Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Quote Originally Posted by DonNMass View Post
    Again, Unitas is a class by himself, an iconic QB from a different era and to remind the youngins, Unitas gave the NFL and identity as a national sport when baseball was the National pastime, and in so doing put Baltimore on the map as a legit sports town when the Orioles were still in diapers. Most of the Colts if not all, worked full time jobs leaving little time to train, practice, etc. Some I heard worked at Bethlehem Steel, some did carpentry. Athletes today are groomed from childhood, sports science, diets, training............ It's like comparing Lombardi to Harbaugh, just kidding Lombardi to Belichek.

    Joe Flacco can be a first ballot HOF'er and never be what Unitas was for the early NFL and Baltimore being showcased on the national stage.

    I just want to appreciate Flacco for who he is and get him some godam receivers that can effing catch, and coaching continuity.
    When they discuss Kings, they still say Lebron aint got 6 rings. If Flacoo has two Superbowl MVP victories, which I expect, He's baltimore's GOAT.

    Unless we want to claim Brady isnt the GOAT and Jim Kelly/ Warren Moon were better QBs than Flacco

    If flacco fails to win another Superbowl and MVP of the game, he will be #2.

    Unitas also benefitted from a time where defenders hadn't fully adapted to the forward pass. He had an innate advantage. It's like when the spread hit college football. No one could deal with it at first because they hadn't adapted.





  6. #54
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    Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    When they discuss Kings, they still say Lebron aint got 6 rings. If Flacoo has two Superbowl MVP victories, which I expect, He's baltimore's GOAT.

    Unless we want to claim Brady isnt the GOAT and Jim Kelly/ Warren Moon were better QBs than Flacco

    If flacco fails to win another Superbowl and MVP of the game, he will be #2.

    Unitas also benefitted from a time where defenders hadn't fully adapted to the forward pass. He had an innate advantage. It's like when the spread hit college football. No one could deal with it at first because they hadn't adapted.
    That's all true and points well taken, but why it's an impossible comparison. The counter is Unitas played in a time when QB's were pounded on like hockey players without flags and ended games feeling like BigBenR pretends.
    "Give Pees a chance, again", and 50 points in a 50 minute game .





  7. #55
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    Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Quote Originally Posted by DonNMass View Post
    That's all true and points well taken, but why it's an impossible comparison. The counter is Unitas played in a time when QB's were pounded on like hockey players without flags and ended games feeling like BigBenR pretends.
    Indeed. The defenders of yesteryear may have been smaller, but they were allowed to hit much more viciously. Not to mention regularly mugging receivers without fear of ticky-tack DPI calls.

    The more I think about this discussion, the more I admire Unitas.





  8. #56

    Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Quote Originally Posted by trailhiker85 View Post
    Indeed. The defenders of yesteryear may have been smaller, but they were allowed to hit much more viciously. Not to mention regularly mugging receivers without fear of ticky-tack DPI calls.

    The more I think about this discussion, the more I admire Unitas.
    They all played Man back then didn't they? You say they hit harder but I don't see how that's true. A guy being 50 lbs heavier running half a second faster is going to deliver a far harder hit it's just physics. There's zero chance Johnny U would survive a half of football playing at 185-190 not with dudes weighing 300+ running sub 4.8s. They just didn't have freaks like Julius Peppers back then


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  9. Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Quote Originally Posted by DonNMass View Post
    ended games feeling like BigBenR pretends.


    where is the fire emoji
    ?





  10. #58
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    Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Quote Originally Posted by Goode05 View Post
    They all played Man back then didn't they? You say they hit harder but I don't see how that's true. A guy being 50 lbs heavier running half a second faster is going to deliver a far harder hit it's just physics. There's zero chance Johnny U would survive a half of football playing at 185-190 not with dudes weighing 300+ running sub 4.8s. They just didn't have freaks like Julius Peppers back then


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    I didn't say they hit harder, I said they hit more viciously. The effect is just as bad, if not worse. Forearms to the head and neck area, clothes-lining, late hits and so on. The league has stopped all of this because they want to protect the quarterback (understandably) and also to turn the game into arena-style football with lots of scoring. Sure, being hit full speed - legally - by a 280 lb guy is bad. But being hit full speed by a 250 pound guy isn't much better, particularly when your protective equipment isn't as good as what players have today.

    As for Johnny U not surviving a half in your scenario, I can't help but wonder how Tom Brady would fare getting pummeled repeatedly without the cream-puff rule protections he has today. In my view, he's the one who wouldn't last a half.





  11. #59

    Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Quote Originally Posted by trailhiker85 View Post
    I didn't say they hit harder, I said they hit more viciously. The effect is just as bad, if not worse. Forearms to the head and neck area, clothes-lining, late hits and so on. The league has stopped all of this because they want to protect the quarterback (understandably) and also to turn the game into arena-style football with lots of scoring. Sure, being hit full speed - legally - by a 280 lb guy is bad. But being hit full speed by a 250 pound guy isn't much better, particularly when your protective equipment isn't as good as what players have today.

    As for Johnny U not surviving a half in your scenario, I can't help but wonder how Tom Brady would fare getting pummeled repeatedly without the cream-puff rule protections he has today. In my view, he's the one who wouldn't last a half.
    Don't bother. The protective gear and rules offset their size and speed. You would have to actually have seen the viscous hits real time to understand. Players wore casts on their arms just for bludgeoning purposes. And God help you if you came across the middle. There are reasons why players have committed suicide due to head trauma. Quite a few played for the Steelers. The real danger was after the whistle blew. It was common to see bodies slammed on fields of ice. And if you were concussed you didn't come out of the game. Now if you limp a little they take you out! Man I could go on fo hours. Unitas got teeth knocked out, got sewed up, and came back and finished the game. Funny thing is I can't remember a flag being thrown when it happened! Who was it that "speared" Ben and got flagged? Was it Upshaw? I laughed when it happened. All he did was tackle him for gods sake! The young boys on this board understand nothing about what football was like so they're not in a position to compare.... But they do!!! LOL


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  12. #60
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    Re: Baltimore's 2nd Greatest QB

    Just look at the facemask then and now. Everything could and did get thru, knees, forearms, elbows.....
    "Give Pees a chance, again", and 50 points in a 50 minute game .





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