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  1. #49

    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom



    Quote Originally Posted by Goode05 View Post
    4 different offenses in 4 years. Go look up SSSr's comments he pretty much lays it all out. Ben looked terrible the first year and a half to 2 years after switching from BA to Hailey. And that was with far superior offensive talent around him


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    by year 9 you should be able to read a zone D, change cadence, learn the hurry up, etc - the basics of the NFL game.





  2. #50

    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongBaldy View Post
    by year 9 you should be able to read a zone D, change cadence, learn the hurry up, etc - the basics of the NFL game.

    Only Joe can prevent forest...er dumpster fires.
    "The Ravens are not taking Jimmy Smith at 26!" -- Me, the day before the 2011 Draft

    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the 2015 Draft

    BP '17 (post Maclin rev): 65 of 115 for 1050 and 8

    @BigPlayReceiver





  3. #51
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    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongBaldy View Post
    by year 9 you should be able to read a zone D, change cadence, learn the hurry up, etc - the basics of the NFL game.
    Joe was able to do enough of that to get paid top dollar.





  4. #52
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    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by Goode05 View Post
    Good post also probably a reason Caughlin got forced out in New York for Macado and Lovie got fired in Tampa for Koetter. Off the top of my head. It's also a reason I've asked many times what specifically John brings of value as our HC


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    It's becoming a real trend. Offense is king these days and teams want to hold on to those guys they see who can bring real value to that side of the ball. The only way to do that is to make them head coaches





  5. #53

    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    lol ssshh Tony you cannot say things like this.
    Tony has saved every negative clip of Flacco since the draft. Tony's opinion on Flacco is like* listening to Squidwards opinion on Spongebob. ( I was going to make a political joke, but didnt want to open that can)





  6. #54

    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    This is a pretty simplistic look that needs WAY more nuance to contribute anything meaningful.

    When Flacco had time, was that in max protect? And if so, were the 1-3 receivers running routes able to beat their coverage?

    The biggest question is, when only using your 5 lineman to block, what % of the time did Flacco receiver ample space and time versus brady?


    Even then, the question remains what the scheme and the WRS/TES/RBS were doing to get quick separation.


    To me, these numbers don't say very much.





  7. #55
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    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongBaldy View Post
    by year 9 you should be able to read a zone D, change cadence, learn the hurry up, etc - the basics of the NFL game.
    lol why you have to be this way?





  8. #56
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    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    Tony has saved every negative clip of Flacco since the draft. Tony's opinion on Flacco is like* listening to Squidwards opinion on Spongebob. ( I was going to make a political joke, but didnt want to open that can)
    he's not that bad, QB is just one of those positions that gets the business in the NFL, especially a QB that is getting paid top dollar, Joe is going to be under the microscope by Tony and any other media outlet, at least Tony don't kill him like USA today, ESPN and others do.





  9. #57

    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    This is a pretty simplistic look that needs WAY more nuance to contribute anything meaningful.

    When Flacco had time, was that in max protect? And if so, were the 1-3 receivers running routes able to beat their coverage?

    The biggest question is, when only using your 5 lineman to block, what % of the time did Flacco receiver ample space and time versus brady?


    Even then, the question remains what the scheme and the WRS/TES/RBS were doing to get quick separation.


    To me, these numbers don't say very much.
    If "say very much" = "conclusiveness" then I completely agree.

    Otherwise, I think they say a lot, but more importantly, lead to many questions, which should lead to a whollllle lot more analysis if its answers or reasonable conclusions that we're looking for.

    I have the same questions that you have here. The data/info is out there, as is the film.

    I'm looking for some of the "what" and the "why", so this thread is just me beginning to take the time (months, probably, with my schedule) to take a more thorough look at Joe b/c over the years, IMO, the vast majority of the critiques that I've read from both Big Media and Small Media amount to advanced box-score analyses.

    Not to say that the work is of poor quality--I've never published anything in my life.
    Rather, I find these works largely inconclusive, yet presented or lauded as being absolutely conclusive, and that annoys me.
    "The Ravens are not taking Jimmy Smith at 26!" -- Me, the day before the 2011 Draft

    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the 2015 Draft

    BP '17 (post Maclin rev): 65 of 115 for 1050 and 8

    @BigPlayReceiver





  10. #58
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    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    Tony has saved every negative clip of Flacco since the draft. Tony's opinion on Flacco is like* listening to Squidwards opinion on Spongebob. ( I was going to make a political joke, but didnt want to open that can)
    I don't have to save anything. Joe provides new material regularly because he isn't much different today than when he entered the league. He repeats the same mistakes and there's been little growth in his game. He gets away with things because of his elite physical skills. Once those skills start to diminish, if he hasn't grown cerebrally by then, his decline will be sharp.

    I'd just like to see him play to the level of his pay. That's all. Is that too much to ask?
    Follow me on Twitter @RSRLombardi





  11. #59
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    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by TL24x7 View Post
    I don't have to save anything. Joe provides new material regularly because he isn't much different today than when he entered the league. He repeats the same mistakes and there's been little growth in his game. He gets away with things because of his elite physical skills. Once those skills start to diminish, if he hasn't grown cerebrally by then, his decline will be sharp.

    I'd just like to see him play to the level of his pay. That's all. Is that too much to ask?
    I am a Flacco fan but I think there is something here. I don't know how much of the film and other study puts in regularly. Maybe he shines in big games and the playoffs because he actually does the work then. I have had this thought rolling around in my head for years. Why does he turn it on in big situations (even regular season games, when you need a drive he often delivers)? Of course, the late in game deliveries counter my thought because he can't put that work on during a game.

    Maybe it is partly what I am thinking and partly that his concentration goes up with the pressure. That is a great thing.

    I thought the frenetic Boller could use a valium or two before games. Maybe Joe needs a good dose or Ritalin.





  12. #60
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    Re: Time in Pocket: Joe vs. Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by TL24x7 View Post
    I don't have to save anything. Joe provides new material regularly because he isn't much different today than when he entered the league. He repeats the same mistakes and there's been little growth in his game. He gets away with things because of his elite physical skills. Once those skills start to diminish, if he hasn't grown cerebrally by then, his decline will be sharp.

    I'd just like to see him play to the level of his pay. That's all. Is that too much to ask?
    count me in as well, I mean it's year 9 why does he still struggle with zone defense





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