Joe & Friends: QB Enlightenment (and confusion!) via stats, analytics...and eventually film!

**TL24x7** · 07-07-2017, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Personally, I think it's a combination of everything, but I will say this...it annoys the fuck out of me when someone looks at Joe's stats and then it's everybody else's fault.

What part of "when the Ravens lose it's everyone's fault but Joe, but when they win it's because of Joe" don't you get?.

**GOTA** · 07-07-2017, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by Goode05

Would probably help running the same offense for a decade vs running a new offense every season

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Unless you have an offensive based head coach like Payton or Reid or a great QB capable of running his own offense that's going to happen. Most teams are dealing with the same thing. When Doug Peterson got the job for the Eagles I heard that was a major reason why. They knew they were starting from scratch offensively and wanted a head coach to be in charge of that process. That's was also a big factor as to why Mularky and Marrone got their full time jobs when everyone thought they'd be bounced for flashier options. Even Caldwell in Detroit survived the hiring of a new GM because he had a vision for life after Megatron and a plan for the offense.

Harbaugh just can't do that. It's not in his skill set. He wasn't even able to hire Trestman with the understanding that they'd be continuing the Kubiak running scheme and make it happen. It was a disaster. I don't blame Harbaugh but it's a limitation we've had to deal with since he arrived.

**BigPlayReceiver** · 07-07-2017, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Greg

No, that is time to release, so those higher times are when he was waiting for somebody to come open.

Waiting for somebody to get open, not seeing the open guy(s), not anticipating a guy coming open or holding the ball b/c of severe post-snap confusion.

All four are contributing factors.

I wish I knew how many times a broadcaster said "Great anticipation (or read) by Flacco!". I suspect it's not very many times at all.

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**BigPlayReceiver** · 07-07-2017, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by DarthSizzle55

nobody gets separation so it gets forced.

I kinda want to catalog a few season's worth of INTs now.

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**Goode05** · 07-07-2017, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by WrongBaldy

9+ years in the NFL...

4 different offenses in 4 years. Go look up SSSr's comments he pretty much lays it all out. Ben looked terrible the first year and a half to 2 years after switching from BA to Hailey. And that was with far superior offensive talent around him

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**Goode05** · 07-07-2017, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Unless you have an offensive based head coach like Payton or Reid or a great QB capable of running his own offense that's going to happen. Most teams are dealing with the same thing. When Doug Peterson got the job for the Eagles I heard that was a major reason why. They knew they were starting from scratch offensively and wanted a head coach to be in charge of that process. That's was also a big factor as to why Mularky and Marrone got their full time jobs when everyone thought they'd be bounced for flashier options. Even Caldwell in Detroit survived the hiring of a new GM because he had a vision for life after Megatron and a plan for the offense.

Harbaugh just can't do that. It's not in his skill set. He wasn't even able to hire Trestman with the understanding that they'd be continuing the Kubiak running scheme and make it happen. It was a disaster. I don't blame Harbaugh but it's a limitation we've had to deal with since he arrived.

Good post also probably a reason Caughlin got forced out in New York for Macado and Lovie got fired in Tampa for Koetter. Off the top of my head. It's also a reason I've asked many times what specifically John brings of value as our HC

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**HbgPARavenfan** · 07-07-2017, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

Well, I was surprised and not surprised.

As per PFF, this is the 2016 season.

As a general note, Joe and Tom are ranked 22 and 23 b/c I sorted the entire table based on "average time to throw" (the 5th column from the left).

The colored circles are my adds.
Green = (Surprisingly) small variance between the QBs
Red = Large variance between the QBs
Yellow = Take note of proportional difference b/c it amplifies the variances

Other than the fact that Joe had to chuck it waaaay too often (as we all know), I definitely have some thoughts about both 2016 and 2017, but what do others think?

I love Joe and think his is super clutch.... but he AND OUR WR's are not built for 40-50 pass attempts a game.

Joe is better at 25-35 attempts with deeper passing routes, as we've seen in his career. He will drop dimes on people in the endzone with the game on the line, but he's not a west coast QB. His too big and dopic to effectively run 3 step drops and screens consistently.

Brady is much better at short passing, partly because he's the GOAT, part because bilicheck system, part because Tom has spent his entire career hitting outs, slants, hooks, screens (except for the Moss team).

The pats play to Toms strength. The Ravens play against Joes.

**HbgPARavenfan** · 07-07-2017, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Unless you have an offensive based head coach like Payton or Reid or a great QB capable of running his own offense that's going to happen. Most teams are dealing with the same thing. When Doug Peterson got the job for the Eagles I heard that was a major reason why. They knew they were starting from scratch offensively and wanted a head coach to be in charge of that process. That's was also a big factor as to why Mularky and Marrone got their full time jobs when everyone thought they'd be bounced for flashier options. Even Caldwell in Detroit survived the hiring of a new GM because he had a vision for life after Megatron and a plan for the offense.

Harbaugh just can't do that. It's not in his skill set. He wasn't even able to hire Trestman with the understanding that they'd be continuing the Kubiak running scheme and make it happen. It was a disaster. I don't blame Harbaugh but it's a limitation we've had to deal with since he arrived.

Harbaugh would be a better college coach than Pro coach. He brings little value to a Pro team. He can be a figure head for decades at university. A figure head coach in the NFL is outdated.

**HbgPARavenfan** · 07-07-2017, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

Waiting for somebody to get open, not seeing the open guy(s), not anticipating a guy coming open or holding the ball b/c of severe post-snap confusion.

All four are contributing factors.

I wish I knew how many times a broadcaster said "Great anticipation (or read) by Flacco!". I suspect it's not very many times at all.

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you can go entire games and not hear the commentators even mention flaccos name except for the starting lineup call out

**Goode05** · 07-07-2017, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan

Harbaugh would be a better college coach than Pro coach. He brings little value to a Pro team. He can be a figure head for decades at university. A figure head coach in the NFL is outdated.

100% agree let him go build a big 10 school. Hell have Plank open up the checkbook for him.

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**Goode05** · 07-07-2017, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

I don't buy that no one gets separation. I think Joe quits on plays when he has ample time to set and throw and he fails to read through his progressions. Last season I studied the coach's tape after the game in Dallas. He left quite a few plays on the field. Here's the evidence in my Tale of the Tape.

LINK

It would be helpful to run the entire film instead of just a still and also to break down what the proper presnap read is for the play called and the proper progression is.

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**Jsmoove** · 07-07-2017, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

I don't buy that no one gets separation. I think Joe quits on plays when he has ample time to set and throw and he fails to read through his progressions. Last season I studied the coach's tape after the game in Dallas. He left quite a few plays on the field. Here's the evidence in my Tale of the Tape.

LINK

lol ssshh Tony you cannot say things like this.