Is Suggs the third best player in Ravens history?

[JimZipCode]

Pro Football Reference has Suggs #3 ahead of Ogden, by their Career AV stat:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../career-av.htm

#   Player           AV
1   Ray Lewis       223
2   Ed Reed         131
3   Terrell Suggs   129
4   Jonathan Ogden  122
5   Haloti Ngata    113
6   Joe Flacco       97
7   Marshal Yanda    85
8   Chris McAlister  84
9   Kelly Gregg      74
10  Peter Boulware   70
tie Ray Rice         70

Nipping at Reed's heels. Kind of surprising to me, I'm used to thinking of Reed as head-&-shoulders above. But Suggs has been a difference-maker too, and he has as many DPOY awards as Reed. And of course he's played longer. Suggs is still active. He could pass Reed this season.

Of course "Career AV" is not the ultimate end-of-discussion stat. But it's fairly well done, and very useful as a quick-&-dirty look at players.

It's impressive how far head of everyone else, Ray Lewis is. The difference between Ed Reed's and Ray's value, is approx as much value as Marshal Yanda's whole career. That's amazing.

[The Excellector]

Pro Football Reference. Lol.

[JonAB]

Allen isn't close to Suggs. That comparison really highlights how people don't appreciate his greatness.

[AmishlandRavenFan]

I think folks that lead with sack numbers when discussing Sizzle don't have a full appreciation for the kind of player he is. 100+ sacks is one thing....playing the run, forced fumbles, tackles for loss, occasional ints, passes defensed, destroying screens....hard to find a player that excels at all those things

The EXTREMELY rare, jack of all trades, master of some. Much respect for Sizzle.

[boller4president]

Pro Football Reference has Suggs #3 ahead of Ogden, by their Career AV stat:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../career-av.htm

#   Player           AV
1   Ray Lewis       223
2   Ed Reed         131
3   Terrell Suggs   129
4   Jonathan Ogden  122
5   Haloti Ngata    113
6   Joe Flacco       97
7   Marshal Yanda    85
8   Chris McAlister  84
9   Kelly Gregg      74
10  Peter Boulware   70
tie Ray Rice         70

Nipping at Reed's heels. Kind of surprising to me, I'm used to thinking of Reed as head-&-shoulders above. But Suggs has been a difference-maker too, and he has as many DPOY awards as Reed. And of course he's played longer. Suggs is still active. He could pass Reed this season.

Of course "Career AV" is not the ultimate end-of-discussion stat. But it's fairly well done, and very useful as a quick-&-dirty look at players.

It's impressive how far head of everyone else, Ray Lewis is. The difference between Ed Reed's and Ray's value, is approx as much value as Marshal Yanda's whole career. That's amazing.

It's cumulative through. If I believed in the stat and not saying I do because I never heard of it -- it would at least need to be adjusted to something like 150 games.

Doing that quickly for their top five:

Ray Lewis 147
Ed Reed 123
Terrell Suggs 98
Jonathan Odgen 103
Haloti Ngata 126

...
Chris McAlister 93
Marshal Yanda 89
Jamal Lewis 101
Ray Rice 114

[HotInHere]

Man, a passing offense could have really prolonged Jamal's career. He was a beast.

No way he gets 2000 yards if we had any semblance of a passing offense though.


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[boller4president]

Allen isn't close to Suggs. That comparison really highlights how people don't appreciate his greatness.

Noone said Allen had a better career only that he had a better season then when Suggs won DPOY. Ware is another guy who sort of highlights the difference between the elite pass rushers and Sizzle and before that Simion Rice (sp). Look I love Sizzle but for some reason people get touchy discussing him.

[HotInHere]

Pro Football Reference has Suggs #3 ahead of Ogden, by their Career AV stat:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../career-av.htm

#   Player           AV
1   Ray Lewis       223
2   Ed Reed         131
3   Terrell Suggs   129
4   Jonathan Ogden  122
5   Haloti Ngata    113
6   Joe Flacco       97
7   Marshal Yanda    85
8   Chris McAlister  84
9   Kelly Gregg      74
10  Peter Boulware   70
tie Ray Rice         70

Nipping at Reed's heels. Kind of surprising to me, I'm used to thinking of Reed as head-&-shoulders above. But Suggs has been a difference-maker too, and he has as many DPOY awards as Reed. And of course he's played longer. Suggs is still active. He could pass Reed this season.

In the entire history of the NFL, no one has more INT yardage than Edward Earl Reed, Jr. He is #7 on the all-time INT list. 13 total TDs (3 blocked punts, 1 punt return, 2 fumble returns and 7 interception returns.) For comparison, Travis Taylor who was a WIDE RECEIVER had 15 in his Ravens career. And Reed was a first team All Pro five times. (Suggs only once.)

Suggs is great; Reed is historic. No contest IMO.



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[JimZipCode]

Suggs is great; Reed is historic. No contest IMO.

You're talking peak value vs career value, though. Suggs has played 3 more seasons than Reed was with the Ravens; and he's still active. Several of Reed's last seasons he was very limited in what he couldn't do (such as tackle). It makes sense that a great player with a long career could surpass Reed in career value, without ever being better than Reed in his best seasons.

[BcRaven]

I think folks that lead with sack numbers when discussing Sizzle don't have a full appreciation for the kind of player he is. 100+ sacks is one thing....playing the run, forced fumbles, tackles for loss, occasional ints, passes defensed, destroying screens....hard to find a player that excels at all those things

He has also played with one arm and is a pretty funny guy to boot... Bc

[saintmatthew]

Suggs is great; Reed is historic. No contest IMO.

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I have to agree. That said, Suggs is still very underrated, a great player in his own right and will have his shot. His career isn't over either. Reed should go down with likes of Deon Sanders. With the exception of maybe Big ben, who leaned on his size and strength more than his ability to win a chess match on the field, Reed really frustrated the shit out of good QBs. Manning (no TD playoff game), Brady (where's #20 on his arm band) & Carson Palmer (always seemed good for a couple picks from Reed each game) are some examples. Most of those teams seemed to beat us because we couldn't get past THEIR Defense. Ed got in their heads and made them look like fools at times. 2008 with the Miami games and the Eagles games just left opposing coaches looking all "WTF just happened". He was like the Devourer in the game Alternate Reality that showed up out of nowhere and took all your shit.

[BlackBeak]

I have to agree. That said, Suggs is still very underrated, a great player in his own right and will have his shot. His career isn't over either. Reed should go down with likes of Deon Sanders. With the exception of maybe Big ben, who leaned on his size and strength more than his ability to win a chess match on the field, Reed really frustrated the shit out of good QBs. Manning (no TD playoff game), Brady (where's #20 on his arm band) & Carson Palmer (always seemed good for a couple picks from Reed each game) are some examples. Most of those teams seemed to beat us because we couldn't get past THEIR Defense. Ed got in their heads and made them look like fools at times. 2008 with the Miami games and the Eagles games just left opposing coaches looking all "WTF just happened". He was like the Devourer in the game Alternate Reality that showed up out of nowhere and took all your shit.

Thanks. Made my day.