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  1. #25

    Re: The Foundation of Development.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I'm not talking about the entire package as a whole. I'm talking about that specific strategy.
    Thanks Ex, these guys they don't get it.


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  2. #26

    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    I think if our Head coach had previous experience as either a DC or OC, that we would have more of a consistent system.

    Right now it feels like the only thing that has been consistent is a passive defense, but even with the same system in place, we often draft players who dont fit said system.

    maybe the bigger disconnect is between Owner/Ozzie and Coach than it is from Coach to coordinators


    Wait

    do you mean things like the Matt Elam experience? He turns our a decent rookie year, then they switch him to new position, he sucks and his career ends up a bust and we burn more draft picks and free agency money on players at the same positions that should have already been filled.

    You know similar to the Timmy Jernigan and Kamalei Correa types. They draft the guy based on what he did in college but feel they are so smart they will play a different position and thus we label them busts because the powers to be didn't draft a guy who fit their scheme.

    We for years have the best down field throwing QB, strongest arm in the league. We sign speed guys in Wallace, draft a Perriman and yet are persistent in implemenng this short passing game yet don't have the personell to run it?

    Are these the things you were eluding too that this team doesn't quite seem to function as if its on the same page?





  3. #27
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    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I'm not talking about the entire package as a whole. I'm talking about that specific strategy.
    I also think their specific strategy has hinged on having a lot of high draft picks.

    They had 2 picks in the Top-50 and got John Ross and Joe Mixon - arguably two of the top offensive players in this draft. Ross was taken 9th overall.

    2016, their pick at 24 didn't even play. Their 2nd round pick Tyler Boyd looked decent.

    2015, literally not one person from their 2015 draft has started for them. Their first rounder, Cedric Ogbuehi got some time in at guard and RT, but he's never been a starter.

    In all honesty, it's their 2011 draft that they're living off of, which netted them AJ Green (4th overall) and Andy Dalton (35th overall...basically a late 1st rounder).

    Draft position does matter in this circumstance.

    However, I do agree with your position that they've continued to invest in surrounding Dalton with weapons. They didn't have to use draft picks on John Ross and Joe Mixon considering Tyler Boyd looked good last year and Jeremy Hill/Gio Bernard are no slouches.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.

    RIP #25





  4. #28
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    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I also think their specific strategy has hinged on having a lot of high draft picks.

    They had 2 picks in the Top-50 and got John Ross and Joe Mixon - arguably two of the top offensive players in this draft. Ross was taken 9th overall.

    2016, their pick at 24 didn't even play. Their 2nd round pick Tyler Boyd looked decent.

    2015, literally not one person from their 2015 draft has started for them. Their first rounder, Cedric Ogbuehi got some time in at guard and RT, but he's never been a starter.

    In all honesty, it's their 2011 draft that they're living off of, which netted them AJ Green (4th overall) and Andy Dalton (35th overall...basically a late 1st rounder).

    Draft position does matter in this circumstance.

    However, I do agree with your position that they've continued to invest in surrounding Dalton with weapons. They didn't have to use draft picks on John Ross and Joe Mixon considering Tyler Boyd looked good last year and Jeremy Hill/Gio Bernard are no slouches.
    My main point was that before we get to any of that. Lewis structured the foundation of the philosophy on both sides of the ball. It increased their chance of success through continuity. The QB is the guy whose going to outlast most of the players and coaches. So, the system needs to be focused around him and all of the coaches need to be coached up on THAT system and philosophy.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  5. #29
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    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    My main point was that before we get to any of that. Lewis structured the foundation of the philosophy on both sides of the ball. It increased their chance of success through continuity. The QB is the guy whose going to outlast most of the players and coaches. So, the system needs to be focused around him and all of the coaches need to be coached up on THAT system and philosophy.
    Yea, but the offense they're running is Jay Gruden's offense. I also don't think it's a surprised that Dalton started tapering off after Jay Gruden left for the Redskins.

    It's been touched on in other threads, but one thing that cannot be overstated enough is that the Ravens have had a lot of turnover in their coaching staff the last 4-5 years. Even on the defensive side, they've had guys leave. Every time a new coach comes on board, the players (even positional coaches) have to re-learn how to work with that coach. They have to re-learn and re-adjust to the new coaches. This has been especially detrimental to the offensive side of the ball.

    We've said it 1,000 times. Harbaugh made a HUGE mistake by trying to get Trestman to run Kubiak's offense, which failed, and then told Trestman to install his own offense in one off-season (FAIL), and then tried to get Marty to pick up the pieces and run Trestman's offense (FAIL).

    Compounding this issue is the way that they've drafted for the offense. They're still drafting players and signing offensive players like Gary Kubiak is here. The Woodhead signing is more in tune with Marty (think Brian Westbrook), but Terrance West? Ken Dixon? Ben Watson? Maxx? Perriman? Wallace? Stanley? Lewis? Those are all guys that would perform extremely well in Kubiak's offense. Extremely well.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.

    RIP #25





  6. #30

    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    The question the Ravens fans should ask themselves is who are we on Offense? I'm out of answers to be honest, the offense is like the defense little brother and the offense is living in the shadow of the defense. As fans we are still trying to define what is the offensive philosophy


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  7. #31
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    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shutdown#21 View Post
    The question the Ravens fans should ask themselves is who are we on Offense? I'm out of answers to be honest, the offense is like the defense little brother and the offense is living in the shadow of the defense. As fans we are still trying to define what is the offensive philosophy
    Before that question, we have to ask "who do we have on offense? We are still missing two starting Olinemen, don't yet know who will play vital roles @ TE or #3/#4 WR, and have Dixon's career delayed by four games... Bc





  8. #32

    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    I think if our Head coach had previous experience as either a DC or OC, that we would have more of a consistent system.

    Right now it feels like the only thing that has been consistent is a passive defense, but even with the same system in place, we often draft players who dont fit said system.
    There's no question with this.

    Coordinators that become HC's always have at least one system in place all the time...their own from their history on that side of the ball. They could and sometimes do call their own plays on their sides of the ball when they want to. So when their coordinator leaves on their side of the ball, they keep the same system because it's the HC's system.

    Belichick has the same defensive system with the Pats that he has always had from his days as a DC with the Giants. Pete Carroll ran that aggressive bump and run defense back when he was running defenses in San Francisco and New York. Marvin will always run a 3 deep zone in Cincinnati. Andy Reid will always have his WCO...Payton will always run his offense.

    It leads to continuity when those guys have coaches that leave...they keep the same system at least on one side of the ball.

    Here, Harbaugh is constantly changing systems each time a coordinator leaves on either side of the ball. It's a big problem IMHO, primarily the result of him not being a coordinator and developing an entire system on at least one side of the ball that he developed and believes in.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.





  9. #33

    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Before that question, we have to ask "who do we have on offense? We are still missing two starting Olinemen, don't yet know who will play vital roles @ TE or #3/#4 WR, and have Dixon's career delayed by four games... Bc
    My words are turned against me, lol. You do have a point and I see it clear as Day. We don't have a clue, I figured Joe would get Perriman some targets but you know Pitta gotten most of them and that was Steve Smith last game.


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  10. #34
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    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Yea, but the offense they're running is Jay Gruden's offense. I also don't think it's a surprised that Dalton started tapering off after Jay Gruden left for the Redskins.

    It's been touched on in other threads, but one thing that cannot be overstated enough is that the Ravens have had a lot of turnover in their coaching staff the last 4-5 years. Even on the defensive side, they've had guys leave. Every time a new coach comes on board, the players (even positional coaches) have to re-learn how to work with that coach. They have to re-learn and re-adjust to the new coaches. This has been especially detrimental to the offensive side of the ball.

    We've said it 1,000 times. Harbaugh made a HUGE mistake by trying to get Trestman to run Kubiak's offense, which failed, and then told Trestman to install his own offense in one off-season (FAIL), and then tried to get Marty to pick up the pieces and run Trestman's offense (FAIL).

    Compounding this issue is the way that they've drafted for the offense. They're still drafting players and signing offensive players like Gary Kubiak is here. The Woodhead signing is more in tune with Marty (think Brian Westbrook), but Terrance West? Ken Dixon? Ben Watson? Maxx? Perriman? Wallace? Stanley? Lewis? Those are all guys that would perform extremely well in Kubiak's offense. Extremely well.
    I'm not talking about whose offense it is. My point is that, whoever's offense it was, Marvin Lewis identified it as an offense that was great fit for Andy Dalton, before preceding to make sure all of his assistants learned it in and out to run it once they lost Coordinators. That 2011 off-season, they identified a QB and a system. In come Gruden and Dalton. Then, Lewis developed a pipeline of coaches based off of that system.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  11. #35
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    Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    It's impossible to say how much the coaching has impacted our offensive talent since we don't stack offensive talent through either the early rounds of the draft or FA.
    We only do that for the defense.
    And yet, our defenses continue to blow late leads, even large ones.
    Given the talent the defense has had, to me that points to the coaching.

    Yet, we keep the defensive coordinator and instead fire or lose the offensive ones, LOL.
    8 x 10 color glossies is the only thing I can figure.
    "Give Pees a chance, again", and 50 points in a 50 minute game .





  12. Re: The Foundation of Development.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonNMass View Post
    8 x 10 color glossies is the only thing I can figure.
    Maybe there is a Harbaugh Dossier that Pees has obtained





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