Hey Joe, Where's the Mike

**Annapolis6686** · 10-26-2016, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by DonNMass

I think Joe is a rare talent with potential elite abilities wasted on coaches that can't spell elite.

The Ravens have mismanaged Joe since the Superbowl. Harbaugh is not capable of evaluating NFL caliber football talent and the Ravens as an institution have no idea as to how to use a quarterback like Joe and how to play football 16 years into the 21st century.

**DonNMass** · 10-26-2016, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

another good point.

Joe is the least of the Ravens concerns, except for health issues. How many games has he put the Ravens in the lead with 2 minutes or so to go. WTF do people want from him. He gives up 2 interceptions after being asked to the lead the league in pass attempts? What the hell do you think happens to the "elite" if they throw 177 time without one? I'll always wonder if he hadn't been saddled with the Lee Evans of the league and Dean Pees in the 4th Q's where his ceiling would have been.

**Annapolis6686** · 10-26-2016, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Everything_Ravens

Bold Prediction: John Harbs will be here longer than Flacco, if flacco doesn't get his shit together somewhere with in the next 14- 15 months.

As far as the calling out the Mike stuff goes:

1. You really don't know whether he is or isn't calling the mike out. Teams don't always use common terminology to call out the Mike.

2. calling out the mike in most situations is really almost self explanatory and is essentially just telling the offensive line what player he wants them to identify as the middle of the defense, for blocking purposes. But again, its all pretty common sense.

3. the center can also determine who the mike is as well.

Guess who goes first

A $5 Million dollar a year coach with two sub 500 seasons - who can be replaced overnight or

A $20 Million dollar quarterback who has the team tied up in cap hell for the next 5 years - who by the way has no viable long term replacement in sight due to the mismanagement of the $5 Million dollar a year coach

**Jsmoove** · 10-26-2016, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by DonNMass

Joe is the least of the Ravens concerns, except for health issues. How many games has he put the Ravens in the lead with 2 minutes or so to go. WTF do people want from him. He gives up 2 interceptions after being asked to the lead the league in pass attempts? What the hell do you think happens to the "elite" if they throw 177 time without one? I'll always wonder if he hadn't been saddled with the Lee Evans of the league and Dean Pees in the 4th Q's where his ceiling would have been.

I agree with this as well.

**GOTA** · 10-26-2016, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Dade

You make a good point. But I think it's more of thinking what Joe did during the Super Bowl was now the norm. Joe had a historic run and everyone (fans, the front office, etc.) thought that Joe had turned the corner into a top 5 QB, a QB who makes others around him better (a la Brady/Peyton). The front office overvalued that 4 game performance, instead of seeing it for what it was...that Joe played above his potential for a month. I admit that I overvalued it as well. While some of us are waking up to that reality, it appears the front office hasn't (given they gave him that extension). I still believe Joe is a good QB. But without at least average OLine play and playmakers on the outside, he won't will that offense into the playoffs.

We all overvalued that performance. That's understandable since the only one who had ever done it before was Joe Montana. I can live with that initial contract. It's this new one that bugs me. It wasn't based on a great performance. It wasn't based on winning. It was based on reducing a cap number. When you are talking such huge numbers that's not smart. The Ravens should have played out the year with Joe at $28 million against the cap and then taken it from there next year. That would have given us $6 million less to work with in 2016.

Ravor wrote about this option long before the deal was reached. He presented it as a viable option for the team. Is $6 million in cap space worth potentially locking yourself into 1 player well into his mid 30's? They could have always done an extension next year. Joe was still signed and getting paid huge money. He wasn't going anywhere. There is no risk of losing him. He would be motivated to work for that next contract just like he was motivated to work for the last one. Ozzie really screwed up on this one. Now they are completely stuck and better find some other way to get Flacco going again.

**DonNMass** · 10-26-2016, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

I agree with this as well.

Damn Smoove, it's like a dog with a new owner every year for 8 years that keeps changing his name and expect the poor fucker not to look stupid for not knowing his name. Joe, IMHO, Joe is the most mismanaged Raven I remember and that's on Harbs.

**Jsmoove** · 10-26-2016, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by DonNMass

Damn Smoove, it's like a dog with a new owner every year for 8 years that keeps changing his name and expect the poor fucker not to look stupid for not knowing his name. Joe, IMHO, Joe is the most mismanaged Raven I remember and that's on Harbs.

oh man you ain't even lying there thats a pretty good but effed up analogy lol :bag:

**Dade** · 10-26-2016, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

We all overvalued that performance. That's understandable since the only one who had ever done it before was Joe Montana. I can live with that initial contract. It's this new one that bugs me. It wasn't based on a great performance. It wasn't based on winning. It was based on reducing a cap number. When you are talking such huge numbers that's not smart. The Ravens should have played out the year with Joe at $28 million against the cap and then taken it from there next year. That would have given us $6 million less to work with in 2016.

Ravor wrote about this option long before the deal was reached. He presented it as a viable option for the team. Is $6 million in cap space worth potentially locking yourself into 1 player well into his mid 30's? They could have always done an extension next year. Joe was still signed and getting paid huge money. He wasn't going anywhere. There is no risk of losing him. He would be motivated to work for that next contract just like he was motivated to work for the last one. Ozzie really screwed up on this one. Now they are completely stuck and better find some other way to get Flacco going again.

Great point. Was saving 6 million in cap room for one year worth locking up one player well into his 30's that's not top 3 or top 5 at his position? I say the answer is no. Terrible decision by Ozzie. It handicaps us for years...and we'll have to continue to see a lack of play makers at the skill positions on offense, unless Ozzie drafts get substantially better. Not holding my breath.

**Dade** · 10-26-2016, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by DonNMass

Damn Smoove, it's like a dog with a new owner every year for 8 years that keeps changing his name and expect the poor fucker not to look stupid for not knowing his name. Joe, IMHO, Joe is the most mismanaged Raven I remember and that's on Harbs.

Joe may be the most mismanaged Raven but he certainly isn't the only one under Harbs. How many players have been drafted for a specific reason only to have Harbaugh try and have the kid change positions or not even active him on gamedays?

**DonNMass** · 10-26-2016, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dade

Joe may be the most mismanaged Raven but he certainly isn't the only one under Harbs. How many players have been drafted for a specific reason only to have Harbaugh try and have the kid change positions or not even active him on gamedays?

You're spot on there Dade, I was trying to be kind to Harbaugh but Joe certainly isn't the only one pissed away.

**Jsmoove** · 10-26-2016, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dade

Joe may be the most mismanaged Raven but he certainly isn't the only one under Harbs. How many players have been drafted for a specific reason only to have Harbaugh try and have the kid change positions or not even active him on gamedays?

man smh

**wickedsolo** · 10-26-2016, 11:28 AM

It is interesting how Joe and Jay Cutler are so similar. Jay just never had the type of post season that Joe had, but their skill sets are similar. Their general disposition on the field with blatant disregard for turning the ball over is not all that different. The only major difference is Jay Cutler is kind of an asshole whereas Joe is more aloof.

However, as we saw with Cutler early in his career, he can be successful in the right system and with a lot of talent around him. In 2008 under Mike Shanahan, Cutler threw for over 4500 yards and had 25 TDs and 18 INTs. He had no running game to speak of and only had Brandon Marshall to throw to. Eddie Royal had a good year that season as well. The next year they fire Shanahan, hire Josh McDaniels, and ship Cutler off to Chicago. Oddly enough, Cutler's best season in Chicago was under Trestman. However, it's also good to note that they had Alshon Jeffery, Martellus Bennett, and Brandon Marshall. Plus, they had Matt Forte in his prime.

I often wonder if Joe and John just really aren't fond of each other. Maybe their relationship has grown stale. Joe doesn't seem like a John kind of guy. I dont know. I might be reaching there.

As the saying goes...most people don't quit jobs, they quit their bosses.