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  1. #16

    Wink Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE



    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    See, the thign is, I still think we are 1-2 players away from championship calibre... as long as that player is an elite QB. We have a championship calibre defense, PERIOD. we haven't had a Raven's type defense, but despite ALL of those injuries we are still one of the better defenses in the league.

    What youi suggest is make a great team without a QB. Then we have a great tema that still won't be winning championships. You have to allow a QB to mature in your system... We ned to get this guy in house NOW. Then we can build the team around HIM. We have enough playmakers on both sides of the ball, we simply can't get the bal where it needs to be.

    I believe that the OL will improive with time, adn even moreso with a good signal caller. If we hadn't invested so heavily so recently I might think that needed to be done first, but well, in my mind it's nearly complete. We need to let them play, and sort their issues out. The talent is there.
    Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion about being only 1-2 players away from championship calibre. I hope you are right, but, realistically, IMHO our needs are much greater . I believe that we are more like 1/2 dozen players away from being a contender again .... and a few more on top of that from being to even think about winning championships.

    Rolle & Ogden will both be gone, and their substitutes are a drop-off. Jarett Johnson is a major dropoff from Adalius Thomas. No secondary depth. LB depth is questionable..... the Smith Bros. may be finished. This defense is in danger of falling off to a lower echelon without acquiring a few impact players.

    And the Offense? 1 or 2 players from championship calibre? Even someone of the calibre of Drew Brees (who should be wearing purple had our FO made the right move) would suffer behind this OL and with WRs who have disappeared.

    I hope that I am wrong and you are right. I don't want to go through '96-'98 again after the way we were spoiled here since Billick arrived.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  2. #17
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    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    I'd almost agree if not for the fact that Boller gift wrapped a field goal and gave the Browns 7 more points on his interception return.
    Boller got the team the lead with less than a minute to play, he did enough to win.

    He had a terrible first half and great second half. And the whole time he was under pressure.




  3. #18
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    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    We need to find a top notch OL player first our QB never has time to look down field.

    2nd we need to find a great corner back.






  4. #19

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    Oh man, Tex.....er.......Ruston, you made my ignore list. I know you are Tex because you have the same one track mind, and you use the same stupid emotion icons in every post like a three year old. So bye bye slick. Since the mods won't punish you for hijacking threads, since they don't punish you as Tex Ritter, it's onto the ignore list.

    Jonboy, if you think QB is the #1 need and the OL isn't even really on the list, then I am afraid we are going to be right back here 3 years later talking about QB being the #1 need. Yesterday's game, and the beating Steve McNair has taken, forcing him out......and then OUT, should be a reminder that offensive line has got to come first. Think about this again, our offensive line is known for injuring quarterbacks. So drafting another QB to come in here and get beaten into mediocrity is just going to prolong the suffering.

    We also BTW don't have a legit #1 reciever. Very little downfield threat. So keep that in the back of your mind as well.

    We need to draft a Center, a stud Defensive End, and a cornerback. And it doesn't have to be in that order. We may need some linebacker help too since Ray isn't going to play forever. Kelly Gregg I imagine is going to be getting up there in years soon as well.


    I'm telling you guys, be careful what you wish for. We'll get that first round QB at the expense of something we REALLY need, and we'll continue to pay for that, and ruin yet another kid coming out of college.




  5. #20

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Boller got the team the lead with less than a minute to play, he did enough to win.

    He had a terrible first half and great second half. And the whole time he was under pressure.
    Now some people might say that Im nitpicking etc.... but did Boller really have a "great" second half Greg?

    Was it MUCH better than the 1st half? Yup. But it wasn't great. Sorry, I just can't say a QB had a great 2nd half when he throws an ill advised pass that goes back 101 yds for a TD. Yes, he had pressure, but you just cannot do that.

    He put us in position to win at the end and in the end that's all that matters.

    Sadly our coaching, special teams, and plain bad luck let to another loss.

    PP




  6. #21

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Now some people might say that Im nitpicking etc.... but did Boller really have a "great" second half Greg?

    Was it MUCH better than the 1st half? Yup. But it wasn't great. Sorry, I just can't say a QB had a great 2nd half when he throws an ill advised pass that goes back 101 yds for a TD. Yes, he had pressure, but you just cannot do that.

    He put us in position to win at the end and in the end that's all that matters.

    Sadly our coaching, special teams, and plain bad luck let to another loss.

    PP
    5 scoring drives in the 2nd half, two of which over 75 yards? One right out of the gate? I would say great. No one is saying the whole game was great, but 5 out of 7 drives resulted in scores in the second half. I think that would classify.




  7. #22

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    I disagree that we are one or two players away from a championship team. I do agree that the most important need is a franchise QB. I like Kyle Boller. He seems like a decent dude. However, he's not the franchise QB to build your team around. He would make a nice back-up QB. The O-line should improve with time and perhaps a better scheme. A QB that can recognize where the blitz is coming from would be big help too.

    We also need a playmaking WR. Anyone who disagrees should watch a Patriots, Cowboys or Colts game. Randy Moss, Terrell Owens and Marvin Harrison/Reggie Wayne do wonders for their respective QBs.

    The defense needs an overhaul. We need a DT that can collapse the pocket. We also need a DE that can generate a consistent pass rush. The CBs are getting old and the Ravens need to bring in McAlister and Rolle's replacements. We also need LBs that are better in coverage. With AD gone, Ray is the only LB we have that can be counted on to make plays in coverage. The whole defense needs more speed.

    It will take a few years to acquire the pieces, but the Ravens need to retool now. The top priority should be a franchise QB. They also need a coaching staff that can develop that QB. I'm not confident that the current coaching staff can do that.




  8. #23

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    5 scoring drives in the 2nd half, two of which over 75 yards? One right out of the gate? I would say great. No one is saying the whole game was great, but 5 out of 7 drives resulted in scores in the second half. I think that would classify.
    Maybe it's semantics.

    But again, great isn't what I would describe it as.

    Good? Yup.

    Like I said, Im probably nitpicking.

    PP




  9. #24

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    Jonboy, if you think QB is the #1 need and the OL isn't even really on the list, then I am afraid we are going to be right back here 3 years later talking about QB being the #1 need. Yesterday's game, and the beating Steve McNair has taken, forcing him out......and then OUT, should be a reminder that offensive line has got to come first. Think about this again, our offensive line is known for injuring quarterbacks. So drafting another QB to come in here and get beaten into mediocrity is just going to prolong the suffering.

    We also BTW don't have a legit #1 reciever. Very little downfield threat. So keep that in the back of your mind as well.

    We need to draft a Center, a stud Defensive End, and a cornerback. And it doesn't have to be in that order. We may need some linebacker help too since Ray isn't going to play forever. Kelly Gregg I imagine is going to be getting up there in years soon as well.


    I'm telling you guys, be careful what you wish for. We'll get that first round QB at the expense of something we REALLY need, and we'll continue to pay for that, and ruin yet another kid coming out of college.
    At some point, the OL that we have CONSIDERABLY invested in RECENTLY has to step up. You can't keep draft the same position over and over again. I think we have to see what we have, and draft and acquire FA's to augment that. I don't really know exactly what we have in the line of Terry - Brown-Chester-Grubbs-Yanda as we may not have even seen that line on the field at the same tiem yet, or if we have it was certainly not nearly a full game. I think they will be good. Also there is NO denyign that improved QB play helps the line by leaps and bounds. A QB that can get rid of the ball quikcly and effectively, discourages the blitz. We haven't had that guy.

    I agree that a bona fide #1 WR would be a great add as well, but I think we can wait a year on that one... at least not a more pressing need then QB.

    Sure we have needs on the defense, but with all fo these injuries we are still a top 10 D... And JJ isn't that HUGE a drop in play from AD...

    I understand what you are saying, I guess we just see it differently... I think if we do all of the things you say, which I do see as needs, we'll be wasting it without a QB. YOu think picking a QB may cost us to fill those needs... but really, who impacts a game more then a QB? How can a serious deficiemcy in the most important position in all of sports, be ignored?




  10. #25

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    In my opinion, we need (1) or (2) DB's. Definitely one, two for good measure. We do need a shut down DE to put pressure on opposing QB's which in turn help out the secondary. We still need to sure up the "O" line and if there was one in the first round that was outstanding, I would draft him. A great "O" line buys your QB time. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have outstanding "O" lines, which allow them to perform their job to the best of their abilities.




  11. #26

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Maybe it's semantics.

    But again, great isn't what I would describe it as.

    Good? Yup.

    Like I said, Im probably nitpicking.

    PP
    You are usually not one for nitpicking. But in this case, I think you are. And I think because if he had played anywhere NEAR that the 1st half, then you wouldn't be nitpicking.

    You are entitled to that. He sucked the first half (which there is no debating), and it skewerd your review of him in the second half because we didn't win. That's cool. I just don't agree, that's all. Let's agree on this. I'll take that half at least 3/4ths of that performance for 2 halves next week against the Chargers. How's that?




  12. #27

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    If Suggs is as good as many say he is, then there's no way we should have to think about taking a DE with our #1 pick.

    That said, Suggs to me is a good player but not great. I understand the need to have more than just one legit pass rushing force but Suggs needs to be able to create on his own as well.

    It will be very interesting to see what happens with him and a contract.

    But to me, a good young CB is clearly the biggest need for this team on the defensive side of the ball.

    PP




  13. #28

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    You are usually not one for nitpicking. But in this case, I think you are. And I think because if he had played anywhere NEAR that the 1st half, then you wouldn't be nitpicking.

    You are entitled to that. He sucked the first half (which there is no debating), and it skewerd your review of him in the second half because we didn't win. That's cool. I just don't agree, that's all. Let's agree on this. I'll take that half at least 3/4ths of that performance for 2 halves next week against the Chargers. How's that?
    Works for me.

    PP




  14. #29

    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    At some point, the OL that we have CONSIDERABLY invested in RECENTLY has to step up. You can't keep draft the same position over and over again. I think we have to see what we have, and draft and acquire FA's to augment that. I don't really know exactly what we have in the line of Terry - Brown-Chester-Grubbs-Yanda as we may not have even seen that line on the field at the same tiem yet, or if we have it was certainly not nearly a full game. I think they will be good. Also there is NO denyign that improved QB play helps the line by leaps and bounds. A QB that can get rid of the ball quikcly and effectively, discourages the blitz. We haven't had that guy.
    The problem though is that we will never have a guy that can the ball out so quick that he doesn't even have to finish his drop. And you and I have both seen our QB's (not just Boller) sometimes not even be able to finish a 3 step drop before getting hit. Remember, Boller is one of the only QB's in the league I have ever seen get sacked while actually turning around to hand the ball off to a running back (2005 against Pittsburgh).

    I'm not 100% sure how improved QB play stops a 4 man rush from penetrating your line, but I do know that if the OL can create a pocket for a QB, the QB performs better. We've seen it time and again.

    Realistically, is Tom Brady THAT good a QB if he doesn't have time to make and eat a sandwich before having to throw the ball? I think we can answer the question about Peyton Manning now. Look what KC did to him, and what the Chargers did to him last week. Look what our defense dows to him when we can get a pass rush. Collapse Manning's pocket and he can't function. That's no different for any QB. Our problem here is that we can't hold a pocket together for a QB.

    Personally, I want to see Terry and Yanda play the tackles. I want Grubbs and Brown on the inside. And I wanted Greg Eslinger last year for a center, but the team felt that Mike Flynn was good enough.


    I agree that a bona fide #1 WR would be a great add as well, but I think we can wait a year on that one... at least not a more pressing need then QB.
    We disagree here. Both Boller and Smith have cannons. But when your receivers are constantly covered, and your current #1 receiver is just a possession guy that stays behind the 1st down marker all the time, it's real hard to impose your will downfield. The problem isn't getting the ball downfield. The problem is having someone you can send on a regular basis. Even if you aren't throwing deep, you can clear out a zone for an intermediate pass. We don't have that.

    Devard Darling showed promise, but is he that downfield threat every week?

    Sure we have needs on the defense, but with all fo these injuries we are still a top 10 D... And JJ isn't that HUGE a drop in play from AD...
    Yes he is. AD was a special player. Anyone is a drop in play from him. I like JJ, but he is no AD. How many times did you hear his name yesterday?

    Keep in mind Rolle may not be back, McAlister is getting older, and Pryce is now out for the year and lord knows what else. Do you want to trust our secondary to Cory Ivy and Derrick Martin as our future?? Me either.

    I understand what you are saying, I guess we just see it differently... I think if we do all of the things you say, which I do see as needs, we'll be wasting it without a QB. YOu think picking a QB may cost us to fill those needs... but really, who impacts a game more then a QB? How can a serious deficiemcy in the most important position in all of sports, be ignored?
    A QB that can play well behind a functional OL will be a key difference. We've had all kinds of QB's in here. Steve McNair wasn't a bum when he got here. But after playing behind this OL, he turned into an ineffective QB. After 9 years of QB after QB, I'm still very convinced it's not the QB.

    I still 100% completely hold to my belief that Chris Redman, Kyle Boller, Steve McNair, would ALL have looked and played MUCH better than they did behind a real NFL offensive line. Instead they all look horrible, get hurt, get knocked out, and turn into old men in an instant.

    I just can't see wasting another 1st round pick on another QB who will come in and do the same thing.




  15. #30
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    Re: Ravens Biggest draft need: Impact DE

    Here's who we should be looking at in next years draft:

    • DE: Chris Long, Virginia
      Chris Ellis, VT
    • CB: Terrell Thomas, USC
      Mike Jenkins, South Florida
      Antoine Cason, Arizona
    • C: Steve Justice, Wake Forest
      Mike Pollak, Arizona State
    • Guard: Roy Schuening, Oregon State
      Eric Young, Tennessee




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