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  1. #25
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    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.



    Quote Originally Posted by OwingsMillsAlex View Post
    From what I could stomach reading this thread you all say that Billick should go because he didn't call a running play. YET what would you all be saying if he had called the running play and A) McGhee goes backwards for loss of yards, B) Boller or McGhee drop the ball and Cleveland recovers, or C) both 2-1 and 3-1 the ball goes nowhere fast and were stuck with a long field goal that may or may not make it through the uprights???

    Stop blaming Billick for every little thing this team does or doesn't do.
    In all three cases I would say he made that right call. That's the point. Running the ball twice, or at LEAST once is the no-brainer coaching move of the year.

    Instead he decided to pass so the negative scenarios were: A) interception, B) incomplete passes that stop the clock and give the other team the opportunity to tie the game. Guess which one happened.

    I agree that you can't blame the coaches for every single thing that happens on the field. The players play the game. But this was an obvious case where the coach made the wrong the decisions and it cost the team the game. As purplepoe pointed out, the worst part is he did the same thing earlier this year and ADMITTED he made a mistake. AND THEN HE DID IT AGAIN!! UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!




  2. #26
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    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Here is the answer from NFL.com:
    ---------------------------------------

    3-M.Stover kicks 66 yards from BAL 30 to CLE 4. 16-J.Cribbs to CLE 43 for 39 yards (28-J.Winborne). 1-10-CLE 43 (:26) 3-D.Anderson pass short right to 84-J.Jurevicius ran ob at CLE 49 for 6 yards. 2-4-CLE 49 (:11) (Shotgun) 3-D.Anderson pass deep middle to 17-B.Edwards to BAL 33 for 18 yards (21-C.McAlister). Timeout #1 by CLE at 00:03. 1-10-BAL 33 (:03) (Field Goal formation) 4-P.Dawson 51 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-64-R.Pontbriand, Holder-15-D.Zastudil. Kick hit crossbars and bounced back. Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and REVERSED. (Field Goal formation) 4-P.Dawson 51 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-64-R.Pontbriand, Holder-15-D.Zastudil. CLV 30 BLT 30 Plays: 3 Possession: 0:26

    Cleveland took their 1st time out for the end of regulation FG. Running it on 3rd down would not have changed anything as Cleveland would have immediately taken a timeout to stop the clock. Even if they ran on 2nd AND 3rd down, Cleveland would have taken timeouts on both plays and still have a timeout to set up for a FG.




  3. #27
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    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by WxKevin View Post
    Here is the answer from NFL.com:
    ---------------------------------------

    3-M.Stover kicks 66 yards from BAL 30 to CLE 4. 16-J.Cribbs to CLE 43 for 39 yards (28-J.Winborne). 1-10-CLE 43 (:26) 3-D.Anderson pass short right to 84-J.Jurevicius ran ob at CLE 49 for 6 yards. 2-4-CLE 49 (:11) (Shotgun) 3-D.Anderson pass deep middle to 17-B.Edwards to BAL 33 for 18 yards (21-C.McAlister). Timeout #1 by CLE at 00:03. 1-10-BAL 33 (:03) (Field Goal formation) 4-P.Dawson 51 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-64-R.Pontbriand, Holder-15-D.Zastudil. Kick hit crossbars and bounced back. Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and REVERSED. (Field Goal formation) 4-P.Dawson 51 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-64-R.Pontbriand, Holder-15-D.Zastudil. CLV 30 BLT 30 Plays: 3 Possession: 0:26

    Cleveland took their 1st time out for the end of regulation FG. Running it on 3rd down would not have changed anything as Cleveland would have immediately taken a timeout to stop the clock. Even if they ran on 2nd AND 3rd down, Cleveland would have taken timeouts on both plays and still have a timeout to set up for a FG.
    Kevin, I have to disagree. In fact it underscores the point. They had 3 seconds to kick the field goal. If we run it twice they most likely do not have that time. Even a run for no gain typically takes a few more seconds off the clock than the short incomplete passes we attempted.

    At the very least, it puts more pressure on Cleveland knowing they only have one TO left to setup the FG.




  4. #28
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    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Kevin: I like our chances to convert when running on 2nd or 3rd and 1 better. If you get a first down, not only do you force them to take one TO, but to burn all 3.

    Who knows, if you run it, maybe they don't even get to that last pass. The FG was taken at 4 seconds.




  5. #29

    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    OK....my point about Billick-Stover is very simple

    If Billick is so scared that Stover cannot make a 47 yard field goal....making that the reason he decides to throw on 3rd and 1 instead of running....then that is a problem. Stover needs to have Billick's confidence to make a FG of that range...You have to trust your kicker. If Billick can't trust Stover, then what's the point. Get a new kicker that Billick trusts to make a kick you really need to make to be effective in the NFL.

    Sorry for the other, but also next time, please look at context. I in no way said Stover sucks and needs to go. I said either Billick doesn't trust him, or Billick called a dumb play independent of that....both of which are bad things.




  6. #30
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    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExiledRaven View Post
    OK....my point about Billick-Stover is very simple

    If Billick is so scared that Stover cannot make a 47 yard field goal....making that the reason he decides to throw on 3rd and 1 instead of running....then that is a problem. Stover needs to have Billick's confidence to make a FG of that range...You have to trust your kicker. If Billick can't trust Stover, then what's the point. Get a new kicker that Billick trusts to make a kick you really need to make to be effective in the NFL.

    Sorry for the other, but also next time, please look at context. I in no way said Stover sucks and needs to go. I said either Billick doesn't trust him, or Billick called a dumb play independent of that....both of which are bad things.

    oh I would have to say that Stover is the only player Billick has confidence in, and personally speaking why shouldn't he? after all he's been our best player in Billick's tenure as HC here.....
    "Is it me or does Billick seem a bit in his Post game Interviews? or is it he's just and doesn't know what to do?"




  7. #31

    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by xmradiodave View Post
    Hmmm... Billick is not going anywhere. With 4 years on contract, it makes it a bit difficult to just fire him. As for the comment that Stover must go... that is just plain stupid. No matter how you try to explain it, it is stupid.
    I disagree. I am not saying stover must go. I am saying if Billick can't trust Stover to make a 47 yard field goal and feels like he's forced to throw on 3 and 1 because of that....then stover needs to either get Billick's confidence or go.

    I don't think that's unreasonable or a stupid thing to say. it's a 47 yard field goal, you don't make it in the NFL if you can't kick a 47 yarder.




  8. #32

    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by AA-Raven View Post
    oh I would have to say that Stover is the only player Billick has confidence in, and personally speaking why shouldn't he? after all he's been our best player in Billick's tenure as HC here.....
    Right...that's just the only compu-coach reason I could even think of that made any kind of sense other than Billick being a total loon.

    ...I hope it's not true.




  9. #33

    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Kevin, you have to also take into account they were at 2nd and 1. If we run the ball, and get the 1st down, we could have forced Cleveland to chew up all three of their timeouts at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by OwingsMillsAlex View Post
    From what I could stomach reading this thread you all say that Billick should go because he didn't call a running play. YET what would you all be saying if he had called the running play and A) McGhee goes backwards for loss of yards, B) Boller or McGhee drop the ball and Cleveland recovers, or C) both 2-1 and 3-1 the ball goes nowhere fast and were stuck with a long field goal that may or may not make it through the uprights???
    That is a chance you have to take. What if Boller didn't incomplete those passes and instead was sacked for a 5-8 yard loss? Then you're out of field goal range AND the clock stopped.

    You always run the ball in that situation. That is what you pay Willis McGahee for, to get the ball in the middle of the field and ahead for a single yard.

    Passing the ball was the worst mistake in the game. Bottom line.




  10. #34

    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Yeah should have run the ball. However yes this team is stuck with Billck. They gave him way too long of a contract more years to suffer Raven fans




  11. #35
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    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by OwingsMillsAlex View Post
    From what I could stomach reading this thread you all say that Billick should go because he didn't call a running play. YET what would you all be saying if he had called the running play and A) McGhee goes backwards for loss of yards, B) Boller or McGhee drop the ball and Cleveland recovers, or C) both 2-1 and 3-1 the ball goes nowhere fast and were stuck with a long field goal that may or may not make it through the uprights???
    You can "what if" everything until your blue in the face.......but you can't argue the fact that we were averaging somewhere around 5-6yds A CARRY in the second half and we should have ran it twice in that situation, if for nothing else than to take time off the clock!

    McGahee, even on a broken play, rarely goes backwards and I can't see them stopping us in that situation....




  12. #36

    Re: Why don't we run it to win? Time for Billick to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by WxKevin View Post
    How many timeouts did Cleveland have when they got the ball back? I don't remember. If it was 2 then running and not making the 1st down wouldn't have made a difference.
    Important point. There were three timeouts. This was NOT the Bills game redux, it was not the same situation. Cleveland had 3 timeouts, clock management was *not* the overriding factor. The overriding factor was putting points on the board, a touchdown if possible.

    With 30+ seconds on the clock, inside makeable field goal range but the opponent has all 3 timeouts left, it was a judgement call whether to press for more. If the first pass falls incomplete we are *glad* for that if the second is complete for the first down; we still have time to take shots into the end zone. It didn't happen, instead, two incomplete passes later, all we had to do was (a) kick the field goal, and (b) stop them from scoring with ~30 ticks left on the clock. Well, we didn't do it.

    Failures of execution on special teams, and of the offense in the first half, really stood out to me in this game, much moreso then our second guessing of "would've could've" of the coaching staff.

    The offense executed poorly in the first half with poor blocking and passing. Special teams executed poorly all game long. The defense played generally well but at the end could not get off the field on two game-deciding drives.

    Go ahead and hang Billick from the nearest tree if you all want. I didn't see the game the same way you guys did, I guess.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




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