Tulsa Police Shooting

**JAB1985** · 09-21-2016, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

So apparently, when the cops arrived, he was visibly disoriented and one of the cops believed him to be intoxicated. They also found a substance they believe to be PCP in the car, which could explain why he wasn't complying with officers orders and why they drew their weapons. That could also explain why they chose not to deploy the taser. Taser's against those on drugs can be ineffective and, in some cases, only enrage the person who is tased.

Still though, unless he reaches into the car, under his clothing, etc, there's no justification for deadly force that I can see.

if you watch the two videos together, the shot is actual taken as soon as he gets to the car, with his hands still raised. then his hands drop and hes still standing there for a little before collapsing. so she still shot him with his hands raised and im not seeing how thats life threatening.

**HoustonRaven** · 09-21-2016, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

if you watch the two videos together, the shot is actual taken as soon as he gets to the car, with his hands still raised. then his hands drop and hes still standing there for a little before collapsing. so she still shot him with his hands raised and im not seeing how thats life threatening.

I am now seeing reports they did deploy the Taser 2-3 seconds before the other officer fired her weapon. That could explain the arms dropping right before the suspect drops.

Still, unless he reaches into the car or under his clothing, I don't see any justification for shooting him.

**JAB1985** · 09-21-2016, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

I am now seeing reports they did deploy the Taser 2-3 seconds before the other officer fired her weapon. That could explain the arms dropping right before the suspect drops.

Still, unless he reaches into the car or under his clothing, I don't see any justification for shooting him.

well if his hands were limp due to the taser, why would you shoot?

if this is another incident where a cop "accidently" grabbed his gun instead, ill be just as pissed off. incompetence is not an excuse.

does a taser make a gunshot noise, or is it considerably quieter? because in the dashcam i only hear one shot and its immediately as they get to the back of the car and his hands drop after that, then he falls to the ground and based on the helicopter footage hes bleeding out directly after that. Id think id hear 2 distinct shots if that were true. maybe she tased him before he started walking to his car?

that is one thing, i havent seen the initial encounter, so there are some unknown variables to her state of mind, but again, thats not justification if he wasnt a threat.

**HoustonRaven** · 09-21-2016, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

well if his hands were limp due to the taser, why would you shoot?

You dont. I am not saying otherwise.

Originally Posted by JAB1985

if this is another incident where a cop "accidently" grabbed his gun instead, ill be just as pissed off. incompetence is not an excuse.

I agree, though I am not aware of another police shooting where an officer accidentally went for their gun as opposed to the taser.

Originally Posted by JAB1985

does a taser make a gunshot noise, or is it considerably quieter? because in the dashcam i only hear one shot and its immediately as they get to the back of the car and his hands drop after that, then he falls to the ground and based on the helicopter footage hes bleeding out directly after that. Id think id hear 2 distinct shots if that were true. maybe she tased him before he started walking to his car?

Taser's are much, much quieter than a gun shot. It's completely possible that the shot from the taser was not picked up on any open mic's.

**wickedsolo** · 09-21-2016, 09:32 AM

I think what boggles my mind the most is that in today's society, cops are still jumping the gun (for lack of a better term).

**wickedsolo** · 09-21-2016, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Taser's are much, much quieter than a gun shot. It's completely possible that the shot from the taser was not picked up on any open mic's.

It's also possible that they flat out missed with the taser gun or it didn't lodge into his skin.

I've fired a few taser guns and I've found them to not be very accurate at certain distances.

**JAB1985** · 09-21-2016, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

You dont. I am not saying otherwise.

I agree, though I am not aware of another police shooting where an officer accidentally went for their gun as opposed to the taser.

Taser's are much, much quieter than a gun shot. It's completely possible that the shot from the taser was not picked up on any open mic's.

not saying you were, im just kind of shocked we even have to talk about that.

there was a shooting, where the cop said he went for his taser and grabbed his gun by accident. google search says it was oklahoma. I believe without reading into it, it was an older man that left the force but was a "reserve". hopefully not common in active duty.

if thats so, than im certain i heard the shot when they reached the rear of the vehicle and his hands were still up. its in the dashcam video and i dont think its very disputable, regardless what happened up to the event.

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I think what boggles my mind the most is that in today's society, cops are still jumping the gun (for lack of a better term).

its tough out there for cops right now. civil unrest is increasing tensions before these incidents even occur, let alone during. I would not want to be a cop most days, but certainly not right now.

**HoustonRaven** · 09-21-2016, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I think what boggles my mind the most is that in today's society, cops are still jumping the gun (for lack of a better term).

Training and hiring standards have been incrementally dumbed down for years and I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the left.

**HoustonRaven** · 09-21-2016, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

It's also possible that they flat out missed with the taser gun or it didn't lodge into his skin.

I've fired a few taser guns and I've found them to not be very accurate at certain distances.

Indeed. Tasers are inherently inaccurate. The path of the two barbs can be thrown off by weather conditions, both barbs must hit their target, thick clothing or excessive body fat can limit the shock received, etc.

As far as non lethal force, tasers have a lot of limitations.

**filthflarnfilth** · 09-21-2016, 02:29 PM

Who would have thought 16 years ago that Shannon was the smart one and Ray is the blabbering incoherent one!

https://youtu.be/qrBMMIcqtZQ

**lovefootball** · 09-21-2016, 02:33 PM

Latest on Charlotte , NC shooting. Best to wait for the full investigation is done.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/us/cha...ing/index.html

Let's see what the toxicology report is on the Tulsa shooting.

**HoustonRaven** · 09-21-2016, 03:36 PM

A buddy of mine who is a firearms instructor and an attorney who defends police officers believes this was a negligent discharge. That's a possibility I had not thought of.