Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 12 of 24

Thread: Plane

  1. #1

    Plane



    We all know about the 'Plane of the Goal' line - break it an you have a TD.

    Why isn't the same 'Plane' concept applied to the side lines - break it and you or the ball are out of bounds. Green Bay's 'catch' that enabled them to be in position for their FG that beat the Plowboys, the ball when caught was outside the field of play, only the receivers two feet were inside the field of play.





  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wilton, CT
    Posts
    25,067
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi16 View Post
    We all know about the 'Plane of the Goal' line - break it an you have a TD.

    Why isn't the same 'Plane' concept applied to the side lines - break it and you or the ball are out of bounds. Green Bay's 'catch' that enabled them to be in position for their FG that beat the Plowboys, the ball when caught was outside the field of play, only the receivers two feet were inside the field of play.
    If that was the case then stepping out of bounds with the ball still in bounds wouldn't matter. Or, if you look at the goal line, any part of the body going over the plane would be a TD. That's why the sideline and the goal line can't have the exact same rules.





  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    34,414

    Plane

    It's consistent for both.

    If a receiver caught a ball with only two feet in the end zone but the ball was outside the lines never breaking the plane, it would still be a TD.

    A runner who tip toes into the front corner of the end zone getting his feet in but the ball is outside the plane of the end zone is also a TD.

    That same catch in the end zone would have been a TD as well.

    "Crossing the plane" is a TD, yes, but it's not the only way to make a TD.





  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Eastern Shore
    Posts
    3,087

    Re: Plane

    The key phrase here is "out of bounds". The end zone is not out of bounds, therefore he goal line cannot be treated in the same way as the sidelines.
    "Screw it, let's ride"!





  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    16,512

    Re: Plane

    I personally hate the breaking the plane rule. Like Brown's TD against us. He just kinda sticks the ball over the line. I always thought you should have to cross the line, but then it becomes a big question of how you rule what has to cross the line, so I understand why they use the ball crossing the plane as the measurement.

    Annoying, but understandable.
    Its not whether you get knocked down; its whether you get up.
    Vince Lombardi

    http://russellstreetreport.com/author/cole_jackson/

    Twitter: @ColeJacksonRSR





  6. #6

    Re: Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    It's consistent for both.

    If a receiver caught a ball with only two feet in the end zone but the ball was outside the lines never breaking the plane, it would still be a TD.

    A runner who tip toes into the front corner of the end zone getting his feet in but the ball is outside the plane of the end zone is also a TD.

    That same catch in the end zone would have been a TD as well.

    "Crossing the plane" is a TD, yes, but it's not the only way to make a TD.
    This is news to me. If true, why the controversy over Santonio Holmes' 2008 catch against the Ravens when he was standing in the end zone and fell into the field of play while making the catch. The determining factor was the position of the ball, not his feet, which were clearly in the end zone the entire time.
    "This space for rent" - Roger Goodell





  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    15,870
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi16 View Post
    Green Bay's 'catch' that enabled them to be in position for their FG that beat the Plowboys, the ball when caught was outside the field of play, only the receivers two feet were inside the field of play.
    Do you mean like the Packers will be taking a plane to Atlanta for the NFCC game?
    ... Bc





  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    34,414

    Re: Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    This is news to me. If true, why the controversy over Santonio Holmes' 2008 catch against the Ravens when he was standing in the end zone and fell into the field of play while making the catch. The determining factor was the position of the ball, not his feet, which were clearly in the end zone the entire time.
    I don't recall the details on that one so I cannot comment.

    I do know that a receiver establishing possession in the EZ, ball over the plane or not, is a TD. Move that same Cook catch down the field into the EZ and it's a TD, even though the ball never crossed the plane.

    And Cam Newton and other scrambling QB's have made numerous rushing TD's without the ball crossing the plane because again, they establish themselves in the EZ. For example, Cam is on the 3 yard line looking to score, forced to scramble, rolls right and heads for that front corner of the EZ, chased by the defense. Ball is in his right hand as to keep it away from field of play and the defense, as they're taught. Two feet touch in the front corner of EZ and then out the side of the EZ. Ball was on his right side and never crossed the plane. That's a TD too.

    It's one of those things not written in the rule book but has become the standard.

    EDIT: Ok, went and rewatched the play from 2008. Only controversy is a misapplication of the rules by fans thinking the ball always had to cross the plane. Receivers have a different standard than rushers. Holmes catch was a TD because he establish two feet in the end zone and possession. Him falling forward back into the field of play didn't matter.
    Last edited by HoustonRaven; 01-16-2017 at 10:20 AM.





  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    over by the dental floss bush
    Posts
    29,277
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Plane

    In the end zone it's about the ball. On the sideline it's about the player. And what a catch

    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!





  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Albuquerque
    Posts
    11,542

    Re: Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven View Post
    I personally hate the breaking the plane rule. Like Brown's TD against us. He just kinda sticks the ball over the line. I always thought you should have to cross the line, but then it becomes a big question of how you rule what has to cross the line, so I understand why they use the ball crossing the plane as the measurement.

    Annoying, but understandable.
    Back in the day (like way back), your whole body had to cross the line and you had to down the ball in the endzone. Hence the name touchdown.





  11. #11

    Re: Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    EDIT: Ok, went and rewatched the play from 2008. Only controversy is a misapplication of the rules by fans thinking the ball always had to cross the plane. Receivers have a different standard than rushers. Holmes catch was a TD because he establish two feet in the end zone and possession. Him falling forward back into the field of play didn't matter.
    It did, according to Walt Coleman, who said he changed the ruling specifically because the ball broke the plane.

    I see nothing in the rules that allows for a touchdown with the ball still in the field of play (aside from the "palpably unfair act" rule). And I've seen no example that would indicate that such a ruling had become the standard. Cam's touchdown in your example is only a touchdown because his body touched in the end zone while the ball was behind the goal line.
    "This space for rent" - Roger Goodell





  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    34,414

    Re: Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    It did, according to Walt Coleman, who said he changed the ruling specifically because the ball broke the plane.

    I see nothing in the rules that allows for a touchdown with the ball still in the field of play (aside from the "palpably unfair act" rule). And I've seen no example that would indicate that such a ruling had become the standard. Cam's touchdown in your example is only a touchdown because his body touched in the end zone while the ball was behind the goal line.
    Ball behind the goal line is the same thing as it being in his right hand, hovering over the sideline. He's still establishing his feet in the goal which equals a TD no matter where the ball is. The point is the ball never crosses the plane.

    You're not going to find it in the rule book specifically, but it gets its power from a loose interpretation of sub section (d) of the rule:

    "Section 2 Touchdown

    TOUCHDOWN PLAYS

    Article 1 Touchdown Plays.

    A touchdown is scored when:

    (d) any player who is legally inbounds catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) that is on, above, or behind the opponent’s goal line"

    Meaning, it's a TD if you establish possession and are legally inbounds.





Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland