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  1. #13

    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    None of these guys are getting in. There are so many Wide Receivers with big numbers who SSSr will be up against, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Terrell Owens, Issac Bruce, Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Anquan Boldin...that's just from the top of my head. Smith has 2 1st team All Pros and 1 was as a kick returner. He has 5 Pro Bowls in 13 years. That's just not enough with all those other guys. Look how long it too Chris Carter to get in and SSSr is never going to hit those numbers. It's too bad.

    Suggs and Doom need to get at least into the mid 130's for career sacks.

    Flacco can't even make a Pro Bowl. No way he is popular enough to get any sort of HoF consideration.

    Weddle doesn't even have 20 Ints. Just for comparison Ed Reed had 64 in just 2 more years of playing

    Yanda is the most interesting. With offensive lineman they rely more on stories and awards than stats. He has 2 1st Team All Pros and 5 Pro Bowls in 9 years. Will Shields had 2 1st Team All Pros and 12 Pro Bowls in 14 years. If Yanda can get on that Pro Bowl list year after year he at least has a shot

    Yanda is interesting. Offensive lineman
    I don't think Doom will make it, because rushing the passer is what he did well. However, I still hope Suggs will make it as the combination of a very good pass rusher and the first great edge setter to be inducted. The remarkable success of the Ravens against the run is a great highlighter for his individual performance. The team has still never allowed as much as 4 yards per carry in a single season.

    Like them or not, PFF has changed the way DL and OL performance is viewed and both Suggs and Yanda stand to be beneficiaries.





  2. #14
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    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by Filmstudy View Post
    I don't think Doom will make it, because rushing the passer is what he did well. However, I still hope Suggs will make it as the combination of a very good pass rusher and the first great edge setter to be inducted. The remarkable success of the Ravens against the run is a great highlighter for his individual performance. The team has still never allowed as much as 4 yards per carry in a single season.

    Like them or not, PFF has changed the way DL and OL performance is viewed and both Suggs and Yanda stand to be beneficiaries.
    I've heard a lot of interviews with voters ever since SiriusXM started. It's such a political system. I really don't think most of these writers read things like PFF. The younger ones absolutely do but there is still a lot of the old guard voters with a ton of influence. 20 years from now it will be very different. Now we still have Jerome Bettis getting in.

    Go through the Suggs type players who have gotten in recently, Charles Haley, Richard Dent, Chris Doleman, Bruce Smith, Kevin Greene and maybe Derrick Thomas. All but Haley have 130+ sacks. Haley has 100 and 5 Super Bowl rings. For Suggs position they are completely focused on sacks.

    Maybe Suggs comes back strong this year and gets 12 sacks on his way to that 130+ number but I just don't know. I see Jason Taylor and Demarcus Ware and Dwight Freeney and Jared Allen and Julius Peppers all being ahead of Suggs with the voters. I completely agree that Suggs does something most of those don't. He's a complete linebacker and not just a pass rusher. He used to be really good in coverage as well as setting the edge but will enough voters notice? I doubt it.





  3. #15

    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Fuck that. Joe Flacco will make the hall of fame. He is going to win at least 4 super bowls with the Ravens. He'd already have three if it wasn't for his piece of shit receivers. He'll retire as the best or second best postseason performer of all-time.
    I don't really identify as a musician, the label makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm more of a mentally insane person who just happens to play instruments.

    To see a small portion of my original music,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoRotmWWnIQ

    I call my genre metaphorical alchemy.





  4. #16

    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I've heard a lot of interviews with voters ever since SiriusXM started. It's such a political system. I really don't think most of these writers read things like PFF. The younger ones absolutely do but there is still a lot of the old guard voters with a ton of influence. 20 years from now it will be very different. Now we still have Jerome Bettis getting in.

    Go through the Suggs type players who have gotten in recently, Charles Haley, Richard Dent, Chris Doleman, Bruce Smith, Kevin Greene and maybe Derrick Thomas. All but Haley have 130+ sacks. Haley has 100 and 5 Super Bowl rings. For Suggs position they are completely focused on sacks.

    Maybe Suggs comes back strong this year and gets 12 sacks on his way to that 130+ number but I just don't know. I see Jason Taylor and Demarcus Ware and Dwight Freeney and Jared Allen and Julius Peppers all being ahead of Suggs with the voters. I completely agree that Suggs does something most of those don't. He's a complete linebacker and not just a pass rusher. He used to be really good in coverage as well as setting the edge but will enough voters notice? I doubt it.
    If Suggs puts up 4 more solid seasons I think he can get in. It all depends on how he comes back from his injury and how motivated he is to keep playing. He's a smart and instinctive enough player to be effective even as his athleticism declines.





  5. #17
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    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman View Post
    If Suggs puts up 4 more solid seasons I think he can get in. It all depends on how he comes back from his injury and how motivated he is to keep playing. He's a smart and instinctive enough player to be effective even as his athleticism declines.
    That would put him at 37. If Suggs does play that long it won't as a Raven. Next year his salary almost doubles. Honestly I think this is his last year in purple and black.





  6. #18
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    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by EggnogManiac View Post
    Fuck that. Joe Flacco will make the hall of fame. He is going to win at least 4 super bowls with the Ravens. He'd already have three if it wasn't for his piece of shit receivers. He'll retire as the best or second best postseason performer of all-time.
    Fine by me! :-)


    Sent from my P01M using Tapatalk





  7. #19

    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    SSSr has a great resume, the problem is that he doesn't stand out from a lot of others. Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald. They're all very similar and have great numbers - however those numbers won't look that good once the next generation reach their mid-30's.

    The story is the same for Suggs. You have Jason Taylor, John Abraham, Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Julius Peppers and DeMarcus Ware. His DPOY will keep him in the conversation, but it's still going to be tough.

    When it's all said and done, I think Yanda may have the best chance and I find it ridiculous that his chances are being put that low. The thing that Yanda has, that neither SSSr or Suggs has, is that he is THE best of his time. He gets less recognition right now because he's an offensive lineman, but once his career is over I think people will realize just how much better he was than his peers, while SSSr and Suggs will get lost between a lot of others.

    Think about this: four years from now, the 2010's All-Decade team will be announced. Two guards are going to make it. The way it looks right now, Yanda is an easy choice, while there could be a lot of debate about who should be the other. Try and go to Wikipedia and look through the previous All-Decade teams. Almost everyone who made 1st team All-Decade has gone on to make the Hall of Fame, except for those with very brief careers (shorter than 10 years).

    The All-Decade team is one of the most surefire ways into the Hall of Fame. SSSr and Suggs never have and never will make it. Yanda looks like a slamdunk for 1st team selection.





  8. #20
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    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Flacco's career is realistically only halfway over. I think he can and likely will easily play another 8+ years. If that second half is as good as the first half, I think he's in contention. Say it's a 20-10 postseason record, another SB win, potentially another SB MVP, and what should be improved regular season numbers as well. Does that put him in consideration? Or does his lack of big numbers in the regular season hold him back?

    Additionally, I think Suggs is a HOF player, but I don't know if the voters will. I don't compare him to a guy like Jason Taylor or Dwight Freeney because early in his career he was very much a do it all linebacker, he was good pass rusher, great run defender, could get out in the flats and whatnot and cover too, whereas those guys are 4-3 DEs. I guess the voters might, but in my eyes he's a different breed of player, didn't the Ravens basically kind of create some sort of franchise tag designation of a hybrid DE/OLB because that's really what he was?





  9. #21

    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    I think that by winning two more SBs, will Joe get in.
    Piece of cake, right?

    The vast majority of QBs that Flacco will most likely face on his way to getting his 2nd or 3rd trophy will be QBs that haven't won any--among them are Dalton, Luck and Bortles(?) in the AFC; Newton, Palmer, and ??? in the NFC. Flacco will need to beat them all, so as to separate himself from all of his contemporaries, but specifically, to win more SBs than Aaron Rodgers.

    If he finishes his career with +2 SB trophies over Rodgers (who is today clearly in better standing than Flacco) then that could go a long way in diffusing the "But He Was Barely Average During The Regular Season" argument.

    A similar perspective applies comparing Joe to Eli; and assuming that Eli wins no more trophies then Joe finishing +1 to Eli (both his comp% and Rating are lower than Joe's) would also helps Joe's cause a great deal.


    IMO, Suggs needs another trophy and/or a strong finish to his career to get in. He's far out of the top-5 of the active sacks list, and far down the all-time sack lists. We all know that he's an excellent edge-setter, but I don't think that the voters (will) care all that much about that.


    Yanda just needs to keep truckin' for another 3-4 seasons and he's a lock IMO. Also, maybe by the time he's up for a vote (2024?), analytics will have become very much mainstream*. If that happens, he's an easy lock.


    *On the flip side, this would work against Flacco (i.e., the version of Flacco that we have known to-date) if he "only" grabs 2 SB wins
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 08-04-2016 at 12:17 PM.
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  10. #22

    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I would probably put Suggs at about 50%, and Yanda at about 45% but yeah, that's about right.
    Those were my estimates as well.





  11. #23
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    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Simply put, I do not think Flacco makes the HOF. He won't have the stats or the reputation some other QBs have. That being said, if he guides the Ravens to one more Super Bowl victory before he retires then I will be one Ravens fan... Bc





  12. #24

    Re: Projecting Future Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    None of these guys are getting in. There are so many Wide Receivers with big numbers who SSSr will be up against, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Terrell Owens, Issac Bruce, Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Anquan Boldin...that's just from the top of my head. Smith has 2 1st team All Pros and 1 was as a kick returner. He has 5 Pro Bowls in 13 years. That's just not enough with all those other guys. Look how long it too Chris Carter to get in and SSSr is never going to hit those numbers. It's too bad.

    Suggs and Doom need to get at least into the mid 130's for career sacks.

    Flacco can't even make a Pro Bowl. No way he is popular enough to get any sort of HoF consideration.

    Weddle doesn't even have 20 Ints. Just for comparison Ed Reed had 64 in just 2 more years of playing

    Yanda is the most interesting. With offensive lineman they rely more on stories and awards than stats. He has 2 1st Team All Pros and 5 Pro Bowls in 9 years. Will Shields had 2 1st Team All Pros and 12 Pro Bowls in 14 years. If Yanda can get on that Pro Bowl list year after year he at least has a shot

    Yanda is interesting. Offensive lineman
    Getting into the HoF is more about who you are classed with for voting, rather than you individual performance. The HoF requires, 5 each year to be selected - some years there may be 10 deserving individuals, other years nobody is worthy - but the required number must be selected.

    Additionally Front Office personnel and Coaches should be in their own group - not with the players.
    Last edited by mmi16; 08-08-2016 at 04:19 AM.





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