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Thread: Ot: Ufc 200

  1. #37
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200



    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    Right, but Brock will draw no matter what, title or no title. And he has 18 months remaining on his WWE deal. I don't think he goes back to UFC until at least then (full time I mean). He may have one or two "one-offs" between now and then, but I can't see Dana giving a title shot to a part timer. Now if he comes back full time after his WWE deal is up, then sure, I could see him getting a title shot.
    Luke Thomas, editor of MMAFighting.com, was on The Junkies today and he said Brock's deal with the WWE includes a provision that he can opt to fight in UFC events when he wishes. I bet we see him one more time before his WWE contract runs dry.





  2. #38
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Interesting you bring up two people who got exposed as not being as good as their hype almost immediately after seeing UFC quality opponents.

    Mirko maybe. Big maybe. But Gonzaga pwned him, exposing him for a week chin in only his second UFC fight. His third fight in the UFC was a snooze fest with Congo, which he again lost. Granted, he avenged the Gonzaga fight when he did a 2nd stint in the UFC but again, that second stint was marred with a three fight losing streak.

    But Fedor? I don't see it. Gives up too much weight and he never handled wrestlers well.
    Wow, "exposed as not being as good as their hype"? Pride and UFC had uniquely different fighting styles and strategies. It is very much similar to when Chuck Liddell got his ass kicked when Dana White took him to Pride event to showcase UFC.

    There is a movie about this very issue, a Martial Arts classic, known by some as 'The Tournament', starring Angela Mao Ying and Carter Wong. They play siblings to a father who killed himself from disgrace when he allowed an unprepared student travel to Thailand for a major Tournament, along with his son, where they were both defeated. Mao then comes up with the idea of going to Thailand to learn more about Thai boxing to help her brother become better acclimated and it takes quite a while. However, the focus isn't more so on the style, as it is on the rules of the organized matches. Rules that would clearly put Chinese Kung Fu at a disadvantage if they weren't aware of.

    To make such a millennial statement as that would lead me to question how much Pride FC you actually watched and whether or not you understood what stage in their careers some of those fighters were when they went over to the UFC. The Axe Murderer, for example, was clearly past his prime by that time.

    Even if you want to compare the UFC Fighters of today, versus their fighters of old, between the Gracies, Severn and the like, there is no comparison.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  3. #39
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Wow, "exposed as not being as good as their hype"? Pride and UFC had uniquely different fighting styles and strategies. It is very much similar to when Chuck Liddell got his ass kicked when Dana White took him to Pride event to showcase UFC.

    There is a movie about this very issue, a Martial Arts classic, known by some as 'The Tournament', starring Angela Mao Ying and Carter Wong. They play siblings to a father who killed himself from disgrace when he allowed an unprepared student travel to Thailand for a major Tournament, along with his son, where they were both defeated. Mao then comes up with the idea of going to Thailand to learn more about Thai boxing to help her brother become better acclimated and it takes quite a while. However, the focus isn't more so on the style, as it is on the rules of the organized matches. Rules that would clearly put Chinese Kung Fu at a disadvantage if they weren't aware of.

    To make such a millennial statement as that would lead me to question how much Pride FC you actually watched and whether or not you understood what stage in their careers some of those fighters were when they went over to the UFC. The Axe Murderer, for example, was clearly past his prime by that time.

    Even if you want to compare the UFC Fighters of today, versus their fighters of old, between the Gracies, Severn and the like, there is no comparison.
    You bringing up fiction to back up your point -- which I am not even sure what it is anymore -- undermines your first point.

    It doesn't change the facts as I presented them. Mirko got exposed. Fedor didn't live up to the hype. Mirko was 31 when he hit the UFC. Hardly past his prime as you suggest. Fedor I will give you. He was tailing at that point when he fought Werdum and got pwned.





  4. #40
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    You bringing up fiction to back up your point -- which I am not even sure what it is anymore -- undermines your first point.

    It doesn't change the facts as I presented them. Mirko got exposed. Fedor didn't live up to the hype. Mirko was 31 when he hit the UFC. Hardly past his prime as you suggest. Fedor I will give you. He was tailing at that point when he fought Werdum and got pwned.
    That is, because it is a point you are missing. The rules were uniquely different between the two organizations. A difficulty in transition does not diminish career achievement. I provided Chuck Liddell as an example of how those uniquely different rules can effect a fighter, their approach to a match and the fight itself. White arrogantly brought Liddell to Pride to showcase him, making declarations that UFC was the best (Instead of just taking the humble approach), back when UFC was only seen as superior in the United States. Everywhere else in the world, Pride FC was considered the superior organization. It was a part of White's initial pushes to overtake Pride. Liddell was embarrassed. Pride had 10 min first rounds, and varying rules on what was and wasn't allowed. Liddell was only able to make his way through a very green Alistair Overeem, who wouldn't make a name for himself until years later. In the second round of that Grand Prix, Rampage, GWNR's boy, embarrassed him and his corner threw in the towel. Jackson, a guy who was always considered a notch below the top dogs in Pride (Always getting bested by the Axe Murderer in particular), embarrassed Liddell. You could see the embarrassment on the face of Dana White while he sat at the announcer's table.

    The addition to my point was that, by the way you were talking, you did not watch much Pride FC and don't have a full understanding of how these fighters gained their legendary status. For that matter, I'm not sure you have that understanding for the UFC Legends of old. Yes, it has a very millennial air about it.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  5. #41
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    Hey, GWNR, what's that I hear?............................................

    (Screaming Female voice): Ffrrroomm Bbbbrraaaaaaazil!.................................lololololololololol
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  6. #42

    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    I'd definitely take Fedor and Cro Cop over Brock if they fought in Pride. UFC's rules are too wrestler friendly. In Pride, if you didn't score the takedown, you just might get your head kneed/stomped/kicked in since you can kick a downed opponent in the head.
    You guys wanna hear a funny joke?

    DEAN PEES............That is all





  7. #43
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    That is, because it is a point you are missing. The rules were uniquely different between the two organizations. A difficulty in transition does not diminish career achievement. I provided Chuck Liddell as an example of how those uniquely different rules can effect a fighter, their approach to a match and the fight itself. White arrogantly brought Liddell to Pride to showcase him, making declarations that UFC was the best (Instead of just taking the humble approach), back when UFC was only seen as superior in the United States. Everywhere else in the world, Pride FC was considered the superior organization. It was a part of White's initial pushes to overtake Pride. Liddell was embarrassed. Pride had 10 min first rounds, and varying rules on what was and wasn't allowed. Liddell was only able to make his way through a very green Alistair Overeem, who wouldn't make a name for himself until years later. In the second round of that Grand Prix, Rampage, GWNR's boy, embarrassed him and his corner threw in the towel. Jackson, a guy who was always considered a notch below the top dogs in Pride (Always getting bested by the Axe Murderer in particular), embarrassed Liddell. You could see the embarrassment on the face of Dana White while he sat at the announcer's table.

    The addition to my point was that, by the way you were talking, you did not watch much Pride FC and don't have a full understanding of how these fighters gained their legendary status. For that matter, I'm not sure you have that understanding for the UFC Legends of old. Yes, it has a very millennial air about it.
    I watched just as much Pride as I did UFC. Yes, the rules are different. I never claimed otherwise.

    You're making my point with Fedor. When he faced Werdum, he faced him outside the UFC. So yes, when exposed to UFC level talent, he got exposed himself. So while you can make the argument that he wasn't at his best, you can't make the argument about rules being all that different.

    Top level talent in their prime in the UFC > Anything Pride had to offer.





  8. #44
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    I don't believe it's entirely accurate to state that Brock's WWE contract says he can do UFC "when he wishes". There is no way Vince McMahon would leave the door open in the contract for Brock, the biggest draw in his company by far, to leave to do a UFC fight during WrestleMania season. I think he'll absolutely do another fight (several, probably, since his WWE contract doesn't end until 4/2018) but they'll be done on agreed upon times with him and WWE...or he'll just leave and pay off his contract or face the lawsuit, which is a possibility too, because Brock does what Brock wants.





  9. #45
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    Brock and the WWE apparently reworked his WWE contract leading up to the last Wrestlemania, allowing him an option to go to the UFC ....

    http://larrybrownsports.com/wrestlin...ils-ufc/307083

    Kind of confirms what Luke Thomas reported.





  10. #46
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    I think HR is right, Brock does have the ability to do fights with UFC at his pleasing, we have seen where the WWE and UFC have both benefited from this, it's all about money and both companies are raking in the dollars when Brock makes an appearance at either venue, it's smart business for both organization and Brock, until Brock stops making money or one of these entities stop making money there is no reason to believe both the WWE and UFC won't see eye to eye on letting Brock do Brock.





  11. #47
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    I think HR is right, Brock does have the ability to do fights with UFC at his pleasing, we have seen where the WWE and UFC have both benefited from this, it's all about money and both companies are raking in the dollars when Brock makes an appearance at either venue, it's smart business for both organization and Brock, until Brock stops making money or one of these entities stop making money there is no reason to believe both the WWE and UFC won't see eye to eye on letting Brock do Brock.
    Well, "I" am not right. The reports appear right though. :)

    Yeah, if I am Vince and Dana, it's a shrewd business move to allow the cross promotion. Everyone is happy, everyone makes money. Its a win across the board for all three.





  12. #48
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    Re: Ot: Ufc 200

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Well, "I" am not right. The reports appear right though. :)

    Yeah, if I am Vince and Dana, it's a shrewd business move to allow the cross promotion. Everyone is happy, everyone makes money. Its a win across the board for all three.
    right it only makes sense, the fact Brock can even talk about his next match at summer slam with Orton in the WWE on the UFC platform shows they are more than ok with him using both stages, Brock ain't no dummy he is making all the money he can from these two until he can't go anymore.





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