Ali The GOAT dead at 74

**filthflarnfilth** · 06-04-2016, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Annapolis6686

I served with many, many black men who died in combat during '69 and 70' serving THEIR country. Those men should be respected and honored. A draft dodger - who refused serve to his country - and put another man in jeopardy (i.e. the man who had to replace him - just as likely to be a black man as a white) is not my idea of someone who should be held up as a hero. I served with heros - there are 50,000 of them listed on the wall in DC.

I got family members that fought in Nam, so I respect the hell out of what you had to do as a band of brothers. But as a nation, to ask folks to fight in wars when they are second class citizens under the guise of stopping tyranny and oppression is ludicrous. That's a perspective that most folk have. Take care of home first. I don't think he should have been labeled a draft dodger, he didn't run to Canada or Europe. I'm not going to get into the Vietnam narrative however because that's a hole most ain't ready to climb in.

**Justlovemybirds** · 06-04-2016, 05:19 PM

**The Excellector** · 06-04-2016, 06:52 PM

Filth does bring up an interesting narrative. With the way blacks were treated at that time, it provided a polarizing dynamic to Ali's views. Some blacks went, some did not. Ali chose to do his time. While I can see criticism for him not choosing to suit up, I can also respect that he took the punishment for his decision like a man. Other blacks went, but it'd be interesting to see why they made their choices as well.

**Justlovemybirds** · 06-04-2016, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Filth does bring up an interesting narrative. With the way blacks were treated at that time, it provided an polarizing dynamic to Ali's views. Some blacks went, some did not. Ali chose to do his time. While I can see criticism for him not choosing to suit up, I can also respect that he took the punishment for his decision like a man. Other blacks went, but it'd be interesting to see why they made their choices as well.

**Terpsfan82** · 06-04-2016, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Filth does bring up an interesting narrative. With the way blacks were treated at that time, it provided an polarizing dynamic to Ali's views. Some blacks went, some did not. Ali chose to do his time. While I can see criticism for him not choosing to suit up, I can also respect that he took the punishment for his decision like a man. Other blacks went, but it'd be interesting to see why they made their choices as well.

Not to mention the fact that his stance on the war probably cost him what would have been the 3 most productive years of his career when he was about to enter his prime. Also, he fully understood that it was not expected of him to pick up a gun and go fight on the front lines; that he would basically be doing promotional tours and exhibitions. But he refused anyway. He wanted nothing to do with the war. I have the utmost respect for him for that.

**mmi16** · 06-04-2016, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Annapolis6686

I know that I am not going to be received very well for this comment - BUT

I remember his as a draft dodger. I was drafted in 69 and I went. He was drafted and he refused to go (and that is a fact).

BUT he was indeed a great fighter!

Thank you for your service!

On the surface at the time it looked like a draft dodging move. As life played out, he truly was a contientious objector and gave up more in his 3+ years of legal issues and being stripped of his titles than the rest of us will earn in several lifetimes. He talked the talk and also walked the walk. He took the beatings that the world gave him and still was the Greatest!.

RIP!

**Annapolis6686** · 06-04-2016, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

Not to mention the fact that his stance on the war probably cost him what would have been the 3 most productive years of his career when he was about to enter his prime. Also, he fully understood that it was not expected of him to pick up a gun and go fight on the front lines; that he would basically be doing promotional tours and exhibitions. But he refused anyway. He wanted nothing to do with the war. I have the utmost respect for him for that.

I have respect for the 50,000 people who died and the countless thousands who were injured in a war started by a criminal Democrat President, and then subsequently mismanaged and bungled by both he and his criminal Republican successor. I have nothing but contempt for Ali's refusal to obey the laws of the United States of America.

**Terpsfan82** · 06-04-2016, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Annapolis6686

I have respect for the 50,000 people who died and the countless thousands who were injured in a war started by a criminal Democrat President, and then subsequently mismanaged and bungled by both he and his criminal Republican successor. I have nothing but contempt for Ali's refusal to obey the laws of the United States of America.

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree then, although I have one question for you - and please take your gut out of it before answering - could you in good conscience go fight for a country that treats you and your kind like 2nd class citizens? To be expected to risk your life for a country that simultaneously made you drink from separate water fountains? Also, slavery was legal once. Remember that.

**filthflarnfilth** · 06-04-2016, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree then, although I have one question for you - and please take your gut out of it before answering - could you in good conscience go fight for a country that treats you and your kind like 2nd class citizens? To be expected to risk your life for a country that simultaneously made you drink from separate water fountains? Also, slavery was legal once. Remember that.

Exactly! I respect the hell out of the 50 grand on the wall in DC. Gave the ultimate sacrifice but for what? Respect the laws of the land? Hilarious! I assure you if the Internet was functioning in the 60's, no black man would have went to Vietnam. If you think about the money he lost, and the stance he took, nothing but respect for him.

**EggnogManiac** · 06-05-2016, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Annapolis6686

I know that I am not going to be received very well for this comment - BUT

I remember his as a draft dodger. I was drafted in 69 and I went. He was drafted and he refused to go (and that is a fact).

BUT he was indeed a great fighter!

All that means is that he was too smart to go risk his life for some stupid war for a country that wouldnt give two shits if he got decapitated and pissed on with blood. It is absolutely disgusting for a country to force people to go fight in a war, it is downright evil. I'm so sick of neurotypicals enabling sociopaths to dictate the reality of human civilization.

**EggnogManiac** · 06-05-2016, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Annapolis6686

I served with many, many black men who died in combat during '69 and 70' serving THEIR country. Those men should be respected and honored. A draft dodger - who refused serve to his country - and put another man in jeopardy (i.e. the man who had to replace him - just as likely to be a black man as a white) is not my idea of someone who should be held up as a hero. I served with heros - there are 50,000 of them listed on the wall in DC.

Heroes? Nah. They're just people who were viewed as disposable by their government and were treated accordingly and then met predictable consequences. Heroes accomplish things. Those soldiers accomplished nothing, except for perhaps killing a few people. Yippee!

It would be much more heroic to flee to Canada and then start a family, and to do so while not giving a single shit about all of the brainwashed Americans out there going "har har har coward you're a coward how DARE you not support your country! Don't you realize that your life and well being and freedom are all inconsequential and utterly pointless you stupid special snowflake and you should be honored to die for your country in some stupid war."...

Oh that's the lovely thing about America. While they are actively forcing hordes of teenagers to go fight in a violent war, they still have the nerve to self-fellatingly market themselves as a free country. Oh wait, not just a free country, but "the land of the free"...

**darb72** · 06-05-2016, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree then, although I have one question for you - and please take your gut out of it before answering - could you in good conscience go fight for a country that treats you and your kind like 2nd class citizens? To be expected to risk your life for a country that simultaneously made you drink from separate water fountains? Also, slavery was legal once. Remember that.

So Ali converted refused to fight for America because of slavery?

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/06/...ht-in-schools/

And converted to Islam instead... even changing his "slave" name to an Islamic name...

Good call on that one.:grbac: