Pagano might poach Ravens' D coaches

[lovefootball]

Billick blocked Rex from interviewing for a D Coordinator job in, I dunno, maybe 2004? We had already lost one or more defensive coaches, and Billick didn't want to lose the whole staff, so he blocked it.

Rex was pissed. He was already pissed bc Billick made Nolan DC instead of him in 2002, after Marvin left. Then he got more pissed. But next year Nolan got the Niners HC job and Rex became DC.

Thanks, didn't know that. But it would fit Billick's personality( to me) to do what he wanted to someone he was in charge of. Would that have been a lateral move and wasn't that allowed?

[JohnBKistler]

Billick blocked Rex from interviewing for a D Coordinator job in, I dunno, maybe 2004? We had already lost one or more defensive coaches, and Billick didn't want to lose the whole staff, so he blocked it.

Rex was pissed. He was already pissed bc Billick made Nolan DC instead of him in 2002, after Marvin left. Then he got more pissed. But next year Nolan got the Niners HC job and Rex became DC.

I found this interesting blog post that references some books, some articles and just some recollections from the writer. Very interesting take on the Rex Ryan years with the Ravens. A snippet:

In 2002 defensive coordinator Marvin Lewis left the Ravens, and Billick promoted Mike Nolan to defensive coordinator.
"I was pissed because, basically I got f-----," says Rex. "Brian never knew me. Maybe I never fit his image. But it was a crock of s---."

http://oblongspheroid.blogspot.com/2...t-screwed.html

[JimZipCode]

IIRC the Ravens don't have to grant perimisssion to assistants to leave for a lateral move.

Correct, but it's more than that. The rule is, teams MUST let their asst coaches interview for head jobs, and they MAY prevent any of their assistants from interviewing for assistant jobs. A coordinator is an assistant coach, because he's not the head coach. It's well described here:

http://www.ehow.com/list_6742856_nfl...t-coaches.html

The NFL does not differentiate between levels of assistant coaches in its rules regarding their availability to interview with other teams. Whether the coach is a defensive line coach or an offensive coordinator, the rules are the same.
...
An NFL team cannot interview an assistant coach who is under contract as an assistant with another team for the following season without the permission of his current organization. Teams will usually give permission upon request, particularly if a lower level coach is set to take an offensive or defensive coordinator position elsewhere, but the current team is not required to give permission.

The reason it's confusing, and that we often remember it a little differently, is because the rules have changed at least twice in the last ~30 years. Back in the early 80s, teams could block any of the coaches they had under contract, from interviewing for anything. This is how Paul Brown kept Bill Walsh locked up for years – Walsh left the Bengals for Stanford, to get out from under Paul Brown's thumb. I think Walsh worked to get this rule changed, after he became an established coach with the Niners.

Then for a while, I think this was in the 90s, there was a time when the rules were that a team could not block any coach from interviewing for a job that was a step up, a promotion. That led to a weird arms race of titles for assistant coaches, so that eg a Defensive Coordinator - Associate Head Coach could be seen as a promotion from Defensive Coordinator. It got out of control. That led to the current system.

I think the current system is easy to understand, and has mostly worked pretty well.

[GOTA]

I found this interesting blog post that references some books, some articles and just some recollections from the writer. Very interesting take on the Rex Ryan years with the Ravens. A snippet:



http://oblongspheroid.blogspot.com/2...t-screwed.html

Nolan had been a pretty good DC with the Giants and then the Redskins. Billick had won Super Bowl because of his defense and went with the experience to try and keep that going. It made sense at the time. Nolan wasn't particularly popular with the fans but there was no outcry over Rex not getting that job.

[JimZipCode]

I found this interesting blog post that references some books, some articles and just some recollections from the writer. Very interesting take on the Rex Ryan years with the Ravens. A snippet:

I wrote that. :)
Thanks for the compliments.

[JohnBKistler]

I wrote that. :)
Thanks for the compliments.

Yes!!! You are welcome...after I posted it I saw your name.

There is a lot of good stuff in that blog from the early Harbaugh years.

[B-more Ravor]

Billick blocked Rex from interviewing for a D Coordinator job in, I dunno, maybe 2004? We had already lost one or more defensive coaches, and Billick didn't want to lose the whole staff, so he blocked it.

Rex was pissed. He was already pissed bc Billick made Nolan DC instead of him in 2002, after Marvin left. Then he got more pissed. But next year Nolan got the Niners HC job and Rex became DC.

Well, Rex must have gotten over the idea or at least learned that HC's have tough decisions to make because in 2011 with the Jets he blocked his secondary coach, Dennis Thurman, from interviewing for the Raiders' DC spot.

Thanks, didn't know that. But it would fit Billick's personality( to me) to do what he wanted to someone he was in charge of. Would that have been a lateral move and wasn't that allowed?

Coaches do it a lot. It's not about personality, it's about what's best for the team and, to an extent, self-preservation (ie keeping the best coaches around).

Billick was always supportive of his coaches getting promotions, be it here or elsewhere, but you've got to protect the team as well. At the time Rex was blocked, they already IIRC lost Marvin, Del Rio, Donnie Henderson and Mike Smith and Nolan was on track to get a HC gig soon. While Rex may not have liked it, it worked out pretty well for him. Had he gone to become DC somewhere else, he might not have had the talent that he had here and his star may not have been so bright.

[JimZipCode]

There is a lot of good stuff in that blog from the early Harbaugh years.

It was a lot of fun. After a while, the three of us who did most of the writing sort of drifted away from it. Hell, I had a kid, and one of the other guys got married. But that was a lot of fun to do. I'm still proud of some of the stuff on there.

Maybe we should get back to it....

[lovefootball]

Well, Rex must have gotten over the idea or at least learned that HC's have tough decisions to make because in 2011 with the Jets he blocked his secondary coach, Dennis Thurman, from interviewing for the Raiders' DC spot.



Coaches to do a lot. It's not about personality, it's about what's best for the team and, to an extent, self-preservation (ie keeping the best coaches around).

At the time Rex was blocked, they already IIRC lost Marvin, Del Rio, Donnie Henderson and Mike Smith and Nolan was on track to get a HC gig soon. While Rex may not have liked it, it worked out pretty well for him. Had he gone to become DC somewhere else, he might not have had the talent that he had here and his star may not have been so bright.

Yet not good enough to be the next Raven HC. Then Billick gets canned and never coaches again. Ravens didn't keep those 2 around, so that' must say something on how the owner and FO felt about them. Not good enough to be the HC of the Ravens anymore.

In the end, harbaugh was the better pick and has had great years with the ravens. Excluding several seasons, which should be expected, but hard to deal with for us fans.

[B-more Ravor]

Yet not good enough to be the next Raven HC. Then Billick gets canned and never coaches again. Ravens didn't keep those 2 around, so that' must say something on how the owner and FO felt about them. Not good enough to be the HC of the Ravens anymore.

Well, that's a different issue. They wanted to keep him around as the DL coach and possibly the DC when/if Nolan left, but him being a HC is a whole other determination.

They clearly decided he wasn't HC material, or at least, the type of HC they wanted. But, that determination likely can later. He also interviewed several places for HC jobs, but those teams declined too, so it wasn't just the Ravens, I guess.

Then there were the rumors of him backstabbing Billick in the later years. Don't know if they were true or not, but you can kind of see where that might not be something that a guy like Bisciotti would like to much.

As far as Billick goes, they obviously felt his time was up, which is going to happen to ~90% of the coaches who've been around that long. Needless to say, they were very happy with him for many years prior to that.

[JohnBKistler]

It was a lot of fun. After a while, the three of us who did most of the writing sort of drifted away from it. Hell, I had a kid, and one of the other guys got married. But that was a lot of fun to do. I'm still proud of some of the stuff on there.

Maybe we should get back to it....

What I like is the fan perspective. You can always go back and find articles about those teams, but often they don't capture the true - and to be fair, biased - perspective of the fanbase. And since I lived it, it is like watching a good old movie, even if you know that Hans falls from the Nakatomi Plaza building in the end.

And if we are being totally honest, it is not like some of the national writers or writers at the Sun didn't have their own anti-Ravens agenda (who was the ESPN writer that was covering the AFC North and refused for years to go to Owings Mills because of Billick's pre-Super Bowl 35 press conference? I mean, how the hell do you have that job and never set foot in the teams' practice facility?).

[Bawlamer]

What does it tell you when Pags wants a line coach instead of the coordinator? As was said... He's not that stupid. If Pags wants him the FO should take note and make the adjustment themselves. I have great respect for what Pags did as a DC here. I mean what could we lose?