Panthers 1st & 5 at 2:06

**Mista T** · 10-15-2006, 06:50 PM

On the 1st play of the Titans final possession with 2:06 remaining, the Ravens were flagged for offsides.

I was screaming for Billick to have the Defense step offsides again, or, alternatively (if the Titans declined the penalty), to allow the Titans to run 6 yards. My logic: the odds of the Titans making 5 yards on two plays were very high. Simple math takes over from that point: we were doomed.

Had we allowed a first down at the two-minute warning, we would have forced the Titans into a riskier 1st and ten with three TOs remaining. A three and out with proper clock management could have placed the ball in Boller's hands with a minute and a half or more.

Instead, the Titans milked three plays out of the 1st and 5, we used all TOs plus the gift fuck-up belated TO call, and we never got the ball back.:bag: These are pros who should be able to make the plays, including laying down a little. What am I missing?

:T2:

**darb72** · 10-15-2006, 07:03 PM

The major thing you're missing is that we played the Panthers today.

Are you alright T?

It would make since to have the players jump offsides again, but as for letting the Panthers run for 6 yards it will never happen.

Letting an NFL RB of Fosters speed get up a head of steam would result in a lot more than a 6 yard gain. He'd probably still be running.

As to what you're missing, it could be the glaring idiocy that permeates this coaching staff. Just a hunch though.

**Ravenflash** · 10-16-2006, 09:56 AM

I like your thinking on this, Mr.T. Only problem is that the Panthers took the first offsides to make it 1st & 5, they wouldn't of accepted the second one. The only thing that would have worked is to get an "encroachment" call. On a "offsides" call, the play continues and the offense has a right to decline the penalty. On an encroachment call the defender must cross the LOS and make contact with an opposing player. Then the play is stopped and the penalty is marked off.

IIRC, a couple of seasons ago A.D. saved the game for us when he got called for encroachment and the offense wanted the result of the play, but since he contacted another player, the play was dead.

If I'm wrong on this point, someone let me know.

**PeterB58** · 10-16-2006, 11:06 AM

From the Gamebook:

2nd and 4 @ CAR 43 (1:56) 26-D.Foster up the middle to CAR 46 for 3 yards (90-T.Pryce, 97-K.Gregg). Timeout #1 by BLT at 01:27.

To me, this is one of the most disturbing things about the last few minutes of the game....players will make good plays and bad plays and mistakes....certainly the offsides on 1-10 was a killer penalty. But, by my recollection, the 2nd down play was blown dead at approximately 1:50. How then a professional team/coaching staff lets a full 20+ seconds run off the clock is beyond me. Had the Ravens forced a punt and been required to go 60+ yards for a FG try, those 20 seconds may of in-and-of-itself cost them the game.

The clock mis-management continues to be very disturbing from my perspective.

As it was, Carolina got the 1st; suprisingly on a pass. Had it failed, it would have preserved a timeout for the Ravens. But it worked, so credit to them for having the guts to make that call and the players to execute.

**Mista T** · 10-16-2006, 11:33 AM

The only thing that would have worked is to get an "encroachment" call. On a "offsides" call, the play continues and the offense has a right to decline the penalty. On an encroachment call the defender must cross the LOS and make contact with an opposing player. Then the play is stopped and the penalty is marked off.

Thanks. Now I finally understand a difference between offsides & encroachment. I had been unaware that there was a penalty that could not be declined. Thanks.

**Ravenflash** · 10-16-2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Thanks. Now I finally understand a difference between offsides & encroachment. I had been unaware that there was a penalty that could not be declined. Thanks.

Yeah, once a member of the opposite team is actually touched the play is dead or so I think.

I'm interested if anyone remembers that game I was talking about w/ AD and his encroachment penalty.

**Gabrosin** · 10-16-2006, 02:24 PM

Oh, we could have made them accept the offsides call... have Ray Lewis line up behind the offensive guard with his arms open to tackle Delhomme once the ball is snapped. Doesn't even have to touch anyone. But yes, we should have committed another foul. Giving up five yards of field position to make it easier to stop them over the course of three downs is a wise move. Add it to the litany of mistakes made that helped cost us this game.

**HARRYO29** · 10-16-2006, 09:02 PM

hI
I watched MASN, Anita Marks show this afternoon. She had the Billick press conf on today. Billick admitted that he F'd up the TO; but gave his reasons. He went thru the same mental Girations as MISTA T in his first post above.
Billick repeated himself several times on one topic (Turnovers) and he was correct... Take away Bollers Int or Musa's fumble.. we most likely score a minimum of a FG and maybe we win ? who knows..
Harry O in Sykesville

**MikeinGlennDale** · 10-17-2006, 10:28 PM

1090 AM discussed this topic this evening with a stalemate as the result. The host of the show stated that...had BR jumped off sides again, a dead ball foul would have resulted that Charlotte could not have declined.

The guest stated that he didn't know of any foul call that could not be declined.

**Dont Know** · 10-18-2006, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by MikeinGlennDale

The guest stated that he didn't know of any foul call that could not be declined.

I have tried looking this up, but cant really find an answer. Most penalties lets you choose whether you want the penalty or the result of the play. The problem with encroachment is that there is no play so you would end up with a choice between nothing and the penalty. Assume that you pick nothing, what stops the defense from committing another encroachment penalty?

My guess is that you can not decline encroachment, Carolina would have gained 5 yards but no automatic first down.

**Ravenflash** · 10-18-2006, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dont Know

My guess is that you can not decline encroachment, Carolina would have gained 5 yards but no automatic first down.

Since it was already 1st and 5 another 5 yd penalty would of made it first and ten without any time coming off the clock. It would of been the right move.

**PARavensJeff** · 10-18-2006, 10:07 AM

I thought w/ deadball penalties you didn't have a choice, you had to take the penalty, which if the Ravens would have done it again would have put the Panthers @ 1st & 10.