If McNair played the whole game today...

**Heap86** · 10-15-2006, 10:28 PM

I like seeing balls passed with zip and points scored

Zip doesn't mean much if you can't get the ball were it is supposed to go, and once again Boller had some big time overthrows.

The thing is that Boller has Zip and the arm, but where the ball goes, who knows.

Boller had a good game, but don't act like it was all his doing.

McNair has been bailed out several times this year, but Boller was bailed out big time.

McNair has had tons of critics this year, where are all of the Boller critics?

**StingerNLG** · 10-15-2006, 10:42 PM

Zip doesn't mean much if you can't get the ball were it is supposed to go, and once again Boller had some big time overthrows.

The thing is that Boller has Zip and the arm, but where the ball goes, who knows.

Which ones were these? The one that hit Clayton in the hands or the one that hit Heap in the hands? I'm not saying Boller didn't overthrow anyone, because he did. But for the MOST part today his passes were hitting receivers in stride and with purpose. You don't convert 3rd and long multiple times that way. He made some dynamite throws today that quite simply we have not seen Steve McNair make since Tampa Bay.

**StingerNLG** · 10-15-2006, 11:13 PM

BTW, interesting to read that Boller also didn't take a single snap with the 1st team this week, according to Jamison Hensley. So if he came in 100% cold like that and overthrew a receiver once or twice, considering some of the nice throws he DID make today; I'll take that over McNair throwing 6 interceptions in 61 passes any day.

That said, and something that I need to be clear on. I'm not for pulling McNair at this point. He's got to improve with this offense or else much as many people think we wasted a draft pick on Boller, we will have wasted a signing bonus we could have used to lure someone like a LeCharles Bentley or such. If he's healthy, he's got to play against NO.

**Heap86** · 10-15-2006, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

Which ones were these? The one that hit Clayton in the hands or the one that hit Heap in the hands? I'm not saying Boller didn't overthrow anyone, because he did. But for the MOST part today his passes were hitting receivers in stride and with purpose. You don't convert 3rd and long multiple times that way. He made some dynamite throws today that quite simply we have not seen Steve McNair make since Tampa Bay.

Some of his passes hit recievers in stride, I would say probably as many as McNair's have. Boller still had problems with accuracy. Those tips that Clayton caught should not have been tipped in the first place. The first tipped up pass to Mason looked like it was off his helmet, and the second basically ended up being a jump ball that Clayton found and took to the house. Boller had some luck with his passes, but overall he was no more accurate than McNair has been.

The only real difference between McNair and Boller were the deeper passes, and Boller only managed to complete one to Williams and the other was the "right place at the right time" TD to Clayton. Boller is still very inaccurate with his Deep passes, which makes his big arm useless.

Overall Boller managed to move the ball and score 3 TD's, it was our Defense that decided to take the afternoon off.

BTW, interesting to read that Boller also didn't take a single snap with the 1st team this week, according to Jamison Hensley. So if he came in 100% cold like that and overthrew a receiver once or twice, considering some of the nice throws he DID make today; I'll take that over McNair throwing 6 interceptions in 61 passes any day.

Boller has had 30+ starts with our 1st team, McNair has had 5, I would definatly expect Boller to have more experiance with them. Boller hasn't been a back-up for that long.

**Greg** · 10-15-2006, 11:23 PM

So you have McNair not able to throw a deep ball and Boller not able to put it out there on the money. Six of one and half dozen of the other. Equally bad if you ask me. So what is your point again?

Uh, well, because the defense has to respect that he can make that throw, they have to actually cover back there, like they were today when we actually took shots deep. That's how you get the 8th and 9th guy out of the box.

I'm not for pulling McNair, yet. But fact is Boller's play today was the best we have seen over 3 consecutive quarters.

**Art-Florida** · 10-15-2006, 11:26 PM

Wow, I'm loving this ignore feature. One down and one on the cusp.

**Heap86** · 10-15-2006, 11:30 PM

Wow, I'm loving this ignore feature. One down and one on the cusp.

Ignoring all of the people that disagree with you?

Whatever floats your boat.

This is a Quarterback discussion forum.

Why even come to this forum?

**StingerNLG** · 10-15-2006, 11:32 PM

Boller has had 30+ starts with our 1st team, McNair has had 5, I would definatly expect Boller to have more experiance with them. Boller hasn't been a back-up for that long.

Sorry, I still don't buy that. McNair had 10 years with Derrick Mason. The whole story coming in was that Mason knows how McNair throws, and McNair knows how Mason likes to run. And that still doesn't explain the constant underthrowing. When you don't know the system, you throw to the inside when the receiver runs out. You don't underthrow a fade in the endzone, or hit an opposing player in the chest with the ball. That's the difference.

Some of his passes hit recievers in stride, I would say probably as many as McNair's have

At this point, I would say more. Receivers have not been getting nearly the YAC on Steve's throws as they did in Tampa Bay. Mostly because he's been underthrowing them. But a lot of receivers have had to stop to catch the ball lately.

The first tipped up pass to Mason looked like it was off his helmet,

From up in the stands it looked like just a well defended play. I'll have to see it again when the Sunday Ticket game hits my TiVo. The second tip was absolute luck, no doubt.

Boller had some luck with his passes, but overall he was no more accurate than McNair has been.

Going back and watching the last 2-3 games tonight (because the Sunday Night game was a laugher), I can simply not agree with that. With the exception of the INT, and a bad pass to Musa Smith, Boller's short and intermediate passes were much more accurate than McNair has thrown lately. And if you look at the 3rd down conversions and the YAC the receivers were getting today, that can be backed up:

2-10-BAL27 (13:24) K.Boller pass short right to M.Clayton to BLT 41 for 14 yards

2-4-BAL47 (12:35) K.Boller pass short right to D.Wilcox to CAR 46 for 7 yards

3-10-CAR46 (11:44) (Shotgun) K.Boller pass short right to T.Heap to CAR 37 for 9 yards

3-9-CAR33 (10:03) (Shotgun) K.Boller pass short right to D.Wilcox to CAR 23 for 10 yards

1-10-BAL34 (12:18) K.Boller pass short left to J.Green pushed ob at BLT 46 for 12 yards

3-4-CAR48 (10:32) (Shotgun) K.Boller pass short middle to T.Heap to CAR 33 for 15 yards

1-10-BAL43 (3:06) (No Huddle) K.Boller pass short left to T.Heap to CAR 42 for 15 yards

Most all of those throws hit their receivers in stride. Those are not throws we've seen McNair make consistently over the last 4 weeks. They just aren't.

But again, also not shabby for not even taking a snap in practice with them all week.

**Heap86** · 10-15-2006, 11:52 PM

Most all of those throws hit their receivers in stride. Those are not throws we've seen McNair make consistently over the last 4 weeks. They just aren't.

Go back and watch the other 5 games, you will find them. Alot of them were in the final drives of the Cleveland and San Diego games.

Sorry, I still don't buy that. McNair had 10 years with Derrick Mason. The whole story coming in was that Mason knows how McNair throws, and McNair knows how Mason likes to run. And that still doesn't explain the constant underthrowing. When you don't know the system, you throw to the inside when the receiver runs out. You don't underthrow a fade in the endzone, or hit an opposing player in the chest with the ball. That's the difference.

It doesn't matter if McNair played 20 or 30 years with Mason, Its a different playbook, which means different routes. You have to know where the guy is going to be. NFL Analysts have pointed that out on several occasions, not many NFL QB's thrive on new teams immediatly after spending many years with another.

Mark Brunell, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer etc. all of these guys took time before they performed at a high level on there new teams.

I will give McNair a full year before I make final judgement on him.

**crowdog89** · 10-15-2006, 11:58 PM

Mark Brunell, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer etc. all of these guys took time before they performed at a high level on there new teams.

Of the three that you mentioned one has been benched twice for rookies with two different teams, and is contemplating retiring at the end of the season....one had a horendous first season with his third team(the Jags was his second as he started out as a Packer), a decent 2nd season and now in his 3rd, the talk is of benching him again. Only Plummer would be considered as performing at a "high level"...and then only marginally.

**FadeToBlack** · 10-16-2006, 12:03 AM

Boller gave us a spark today McNair hasn't given us.

Having said that, if we could simulate the Ravens with McNair as the starter play against themselves with Boller as the starter, I wouldn't trust Boller to come out ahead at the end.

**StingerNLG** · 10-16-2006, 12:14 AM

Go back and watch the other 5 games, you will find them. Alot of them were in the final drives of the Cleveland and San Diego games.

I have been. Even Todd Heap's TD vs. San Diego wasn't a stride catch. Heap had to fight for the end zone. When McNair wasn't making receivers slow down or stop altogether, he underthrew. Like I said, I've been sitting here watching them as I play around on the forums tonight. Thankfully I have them all in 30 minute clips. :)

It doesn't matter if McNair played 20 or 30 years with Mason, Its a different playbook, which means different routes. You have to know where the guy is going to be.

But again, we're not talking about that. We're talking about innacuracy in the throws themselves. Everyone has seen and is agreeing that McNair has been less than accurate pretty much all year. And as I said, we're not talking about throwing a pass to a post position when the receiver is running a corner. Or throwing out when the receiver is supposed to be in. This has been flat out missing receivers and throwing 6 interceptions.

Mark Brunell, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer etc. all of these guys took time before they performed at a high level on there new teams.

Actually, Jake Plummer was an immediate improvement from Arizona to Denver. I've chronicled that several times on YBR. Plummer went from a 65.7 QB rating in the last year at Arizona to a 91.2 Qb rating his first year with Denver.

Warner pretty much played 80 rating football in the three teams he's been with. So his production didn't drop off all that much. Coming from the Rams, it was bound to happen. But right now all of Warner's first years with new teams look better than McNair right now.

Brunell I'll give you. But I've never liked him, even with the Jaguars.

Having said that, if we could simulate the Ravens with McNair as the starter play against themselves with Boller as the starter, I wouldn't trust Boller to come out ahead at the end.

I have to ask.......huh?