The Trill Is Gone

**ravenjoe** · 10-12-2015, 10:14 AM

Having given some thought to the latest 'steamer' this team laid at the Vault, I would like to add my two cents. My assessment might be a bit different than many of my esteemed colleagues out there, but as Coach Billick (I believe) once said, "Players Play, and Coaches Coach". My point is, having played at the collegiate level myself, coaches can coach the hell out of their players, but in the end it is up to the players to execute and play with intensity and passion. Well, this Defense - I will not fault either Flacco or the Offense here, since they have made multiple comebacks this year, only to have the Defense roll over - has lost the edge, and I don't see it returning anytime soon!! The leaders who were responsible for this defense playing with an edge and swagger since 2000, are Gone! Rather than faulting the obvious whipping boy here, the Dean, and, believe me, I am not absolving him of the ineptitude that has characterized this once proud Defense, I am going to point some blame at Ozzie and Company. Don't get me wrong, I love Ozzie and what he has done for this team; but he is responsible for the talent level on this team, or lack thereof, and he seems to have dropped the ball of late. In rounds 1-3, over the last number of years, there have been too many whiffs that could have possibly made a big difference. With the drafting of the likes of M. Elam(R1), A. Brown(R2), J. Reid(R3), S. Kindle(R2), T. Cody(R2), E. Dickson(R3), T. Gooden(R3), Y. Figurs (R3), C. Chester (R2), D. Pittman (R3), and M. Clayton (R1) to name a few, we are seeing the results of a failed 'Process'. Oh, and btw, let's not forget the mental miscues these players committed yesterday. Again, this is not the DC's fault - the players have to be held accountable for this sloppy and unacceptable play….btw, I would cut Baben today.

**RavensNest** · 10-12-2015, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by ravenjoe

Having given some thought to the latest 'steamer' this team laid at the Vault, I would like to add my two cents. My assessment might be a bit different than many of my esteemed colleagues out there, but as Coach Billick (I believe) once said, "Players Play, and Coaches Coach". My point is, having played at the collegiate level myself, coaches can coach the hell out of their players, but in the end it is up to the players to execute and play with intensity and passion. Well, this Defense - I will not fault either Flacco or the Offense here, since they have made multiple comebacks this year, only to have the Defense roll over - has lost the edge, and I don't see it returning anytime soon!! The leaders who were responsible for this defense playing with an edge and swagger since 2000, are Gone! Rather than faulting the obvious whipping boy here, the Dean, and, believe me, I am not absolving him of the ineptitude that has characterized this once proud Defense, I am going to point some blame at Ozzie and Company. Don't get me wrong, I love Ozzie and what he has done for this team; but he is responsible for the talent level on this team, or lack thereof, and he seems to have dropped the ball of late. In rounds 1-3, over the last number of years, there have been too many whiffs that could have possibly made a big difference. With the drafting of the likes of M. Elam(R1), A. Brown(R2), J. Reid(R3), S. Kindle(R2), T. Cody(R2), E. Dickson(R3), T. Gooden(R3), Y. Figurs (R3), C. Chester (R2), D. Pittman (R3), and M. Clayton (R1) to name a few, we are seeing the results of a failed 'Process'. Oh, and btw, let's not forget the mental miscues these players committed yesterday. Again, this is not the DC's fault - the players have to be held accountable for this sloppy and unacceptable play….btw, I would cut Baben today.

I agree with alot of what you're seeing but there are teams missing far worse in the draft. I think there is an issue with the scheme or player development. Fact is we rarely see a good play on the defensive side of the ball. The amount of 3rd and longs given up this year is crazy.....most teams offense (including ours) would do some screen pass on these. Teams aren't scared of 3rd and long against us...it's just another down to chunk us. Talent or not that is just shit coaching or lack of trying.

**Whitty Hutton** · 10-12-2015, 10:23 AM

**Loyola** · 10-12-2015, 10:23 AM

Both the Ravens offense and defense is a mess - with the D being on life support. If the Ravens want to avoid a 3 win season they should do something dramatic (and we all know that that is) SOON!

**rararavens** · 10-12-2015, 10:51 AM

Definately see what youmean, but imagine how hard it must be for any db to have an effect on the game when you can only put your hands on a reciever until they are 5 yards out and we are lining up at 10 yards back. i know all the effort in the world might not be able to do something about that. its especially frustrating on short 3rd down plays when all the guy needs to do is run a short hitch and he already has the first down. add poor tackling and there you have it. Am i wrong or shouldnt the coaches be able to help players with their tackling fundamentals? I could swear that all players have been doing for the last few years has been taking steps backward, literally and metaphorically. We have had lots of different personel and only a few constants, the coordinatior being one of them. It would be one thing if we could see ANY decent plays from this prevent style of defense, but sadly all it has shown the fans the past two years now has been another excuse to complain about the dc, and rightfully so. It would be a different story if our players were capable of making a decent tackle every now and then but by the time they get to the guy from 10 yards back, he is already moving in a different direction. I would be happy with anyone else at dc right now. However i am afraid that we are stuck with pissy dean for the rest of the year.

**wastnawayagn** · 10-12-2015, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by rararavens

Definately see what youmean, but imagine how hard it must be for any db to have an effect on the game when you can only put your hands on a reciever until they are 5 yards out and we are lining up at 10 yards back. i know all the effort in the world might not be able to do something about that. its especially frustrating on short 3rd down plays when all the guy needs to do is run a short hitch and he already has the first down. add poor tackling and there you have it. Am i wrong or shouldnt the coaches be able to help players with their tackling fundamentals? I could swear that all players have been doing for the last few years has been taking steps backward, literally and metaphorically. We have had lots of different personel and only a few constants, the coordinatior being one of them. It would be one thing if we could see ANY decent plays from this prevent style of defense, but sadly all it has shown the fans the past two years now has been another excuse to complain about the dc, and rightfully so. It would be a different story if our players were capable of making a decent tackle every now and then but by the time they get to the guy from 10 yards back, he is already moving in a different direction. I would be happy with anyone else at dc right now. However i am afraid that we are stuck with pissy dean for the rest of the year.

+1

I read on the forum recently about how the player development goes hand and hand with the coaching scheme, which makes perfect sense. I've also read about certain players not being used to the strengths that they showed in college (Smith in press coverage for instance). I agree with all that.

That being said, how can the FO be judged for the draft "misses" if the coaching philosophy doesn't use those players to their natural potential/skills? I would say they can't be. Who's to say those players listed wouldn't/couldn't be stars if the coordinators employed at the time weren't scared pansies with their scheme/playcalling? (Obviously some are straight up turds that none of the greatest coaches would've been able to shine)

I'll also add this to the discussion: I feel like Pees is a coach who assumes that the players should already have certain skills that he shouldn't HAVE to teach... tackling, positioning, etc. "You played and starred in college, I shouldn't have to teach you..." It would explain his "technique" excuse. It's sort of an arrogance (he did spend time in Arrogantville (Boston) before coming to Baltimore).

But as most would agree, those things are still taught/tweaked by the coach.

Meh, my two cents.

**callahan09** · 10-12-2015, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Loyola

Both the Ravens offense and defense is a mess - with the D being on life support. If the Ravens want to avoid a 3 win season they should do something dramatic (and we all know that that is) SOON!

Overall, we have the 10th scoring offense, but the 24th scoring defense. But that doesn't take into consideration the schedule of opponents. So, let's take a look at that...

Our 5 opponents' defenses have allowed 388 points in 19 games against all OTHER teams besides the Ravens. That's 20.4 points per game allowed. The Ravens have scored 24.6 points per game. So this offense is 4.2 points per game BETTER than everybody else against the defenses we've played.

Conversely, our 5 opponents' offenses have scored 445 points in 19 games against all OTHER teams besides the Ravens. That's 23.4 points per game scored. The Ravens have allowed those teams to score 27.4 points per game. So this defense is 4.0 points per game WORSE than everybody else against the offenses we've played.

Seems to me that the offense is doing a whole lot better than the defense.

And the offense has been working with cast-offs, rookies, undrafted players, backups, etc. due to a ton of injuries. Yes, there are injuries on the defensive side of the ball as well, but the fact is, we've invest a ton more into defense on this roster, we've focused on defense, we've spent the vast majority of our higher draft picks on defense, and there really isn't more of an "injury excuse" for the defense to use than for the offense, but the offense is playing above average football while the defense plays below average football.

**GaTechRavens** · 10-12-2015, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by ravenjoe

Having given some thought to the latest 'steamer' this team laid at the Vault, I would like to add my two cents. My assessment might be a bit different than many of my esteemed colleagues out there, but as Coach Billick (I believe) once said, "Players Play, and Coaches Coach". My point is, having played at the collegiate level myself, coaches can coach the hell out of their players, but in the end it is up to the players to execute and play with intensity and passion. Well, this Defense - I will not fault either Flacco or the Offense here, since they have made multiple comebacks this year, only to have the Defense roll over - has lost the edge, and I don't see it returning anytime soon!! The leaders who were responsible for this defense playing with an edge and swagger since 2000, are Gone! Rather than faulting the obvious whipping boy here, the Dean, and, believe me, I am not absolving him of the ineptitude that has characterized this once proud Defense, I am going to point some blame at Ozzie and Company. Don't get me wrong, I love Ozzie and what he has done for this team; but he is responsible for the talent level on this team, or lack thereof, and he seems to have dropped the ball of late. In rounds 1-3, over the last number of years, there have been too many whiffs that could have possibly made a big difference. With the drafting of the likes of M. Elam(R1), A. Brown(R2), J. Reid(R3), S. Kindle(R2), T. Cody(R2), E. Dickson(R3), T. Gooden(R3), Y. Figurs (R3), C. Chester (R2), D. Pittman (R3), and M. Clayton (R1) to name a few, we are seeing the results of a failed 'Process'. Oh, and btw, let's not forget the mental miscues these players committed yesterday. Again, this is not the DC's fault - the players have to be held accountable for this sloppy and unacceptable play….btw, I would cut Baben today.

If you have to bring up 3rd round picks from 10 years ago to show how much of a failure the process has been, it probably hasn't failed.

**rararavens** · 10-12-2015, 12:11 PM

As far as the offense goes, im not super stoked on it, however any time you score 30 points, you should expect a swinging chance at a win. if the defense cant support a 30 point score, what more do you want? joe and the offense to score 40 fuckin points every game? thats not going to happen with no wrs, i dont care if you have the mighty belicheat as your personal wr coach or oc.