Lack of Quality 4th/5th/6th year Starters on Ravens.... A possible reason for poor start.

[ravensnhokies]

Like Loba pointed out, we can agree that the Ravens are going to keep a core of 8-10 franchise players that have the big contracts. Ideally, you want those guys to be in their prime years (years 5-8.... other than QB) and maybe 1 or 2 older vets that are still good players and team leaders (ie Suggs). Moving forward a couple years when Suggs is gone, who deserves to be in that core group. Joe, Jimmy, and Yanda is probably the older vet.... but really who else. CJ definitely when his contract is up but he's got 3 more years on the rookie deal. Doom too old? Brandon maybe. KO is coming up after this year but his injury history scares me. Also its probably a Yanda vs. KO decision due to cap space and I think the Ravens will choose Yanda. I don't think Ricky will be worthy of that Top Tier. Hell no for Upshaw, Elam, Brown, Monroe. So this means they will probably have to find some high priced FA guys. This is not ideal, b/c guys that make it to FA have issues and typically aren't worth the money they are asking for. Teams always resign their 'Core' guys that they have drafted that are worth keeping.

Ultimately this is the Ravens dilemma when you don't draft core franchise quality players during the 2010-13 window.

[houstonravensfan]

[QUOTE=lobachevsky;982700]Aaaaaand the answer is--



The Ravens philosophy is to build their roster in 4 layers (up from 3 in the original virgin of this post):

1. A core of 8-12 key players signed long-term to relatively lucrative contracts
2. First-stringers (starters & rotational personnel) who are still playing under their cheap rookie deals
3. 2nd/3rd-string back-of-the-roster players, usually late-round draft picks and UDFAs
4. Veteran FAs signed relatively inexpensively, usually to fill specific holes

After his 4th season, two as a Category 2 first-stringer, his rookie contract expires. The team offers him a "right player, right price" follow-on contract (based upon their cap situation, specific needs, & evaluation of his play). Unless they decide to make him part of the long-term core of the roster, & pay him commensurately, he can probably get considerably more $$$ elsewhere. If he leaves, Oz collects the compensatory pick commensurate with his new contract, promotes an understudy (who is now beginning his 3rd year & should be ready to move up) & drafts his understudies & eventual successors.

Category 4 players sign here for a variety of reasons. Much of it has to do with the continuing excellence of the organization: not only are they treated well but there is a non-trivial chance of reaching the playoffs. (I'd put SSSR and Arrington in that group.) Some got lost in the depth chart with their former team & want the chance to prove they can play (Corey Graham), or got pigeonholed in a restricted role & want to expand their resume (Brendan Ayanbadejo).[/COLOR][/indent]
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Great post -- as usual. Would you take the time to go a step further and identify the players in the categories you list -- or at least:

A core of 8-12 key players signed long-term to relatively lucrative contracts
and
First-stringers (starters & rotational personnel) who are still playing under their cheap rookie deals

THANX!

[SugarRay52]

I see more coaching issues than talent issues. There is good talent int the defensive front 7, on the o-line and at QB. There is pretty good talent at RB and for the starters in the secondary. That's enough to win. Execution has been poor the first 2 weeks. Coach them up and they can win

Exactly the coaching has to get better, they have enough talent to win games consistently. Would this thread exist if the Ravens were 2-0? Probably not

[pickles]

Exactly the coaching has to get better, they have enough talent to win games consistently. Would this thread exist if the Ravens were 2-0? Probably not

The Ravens are two plays from being 2-0 though. I mean, really, they've lost both of those games by the thinnest of margins. History suggests that they won't continue to lose every close game they're in.

[BPF2]

I think the Ravens do a good job of looking out a few years and preparing for anticipated losses. The next man up philosophy only works if you've been able to find that next man in advance. Like getting Williams knowing Ngata was going to be coming due and a decision would need to be made. Urschel knowing they'd have Yanda/KO coming due. Drafting Buck Allen and Z Smith this year I think is in anticipation of the needs when Forsett and Suggs/Doom come due for a decision.

But they've also had some bad luck in the situations with Rice and Pitta. Those guys were signed with an expectation of continued performance at a similar level for a few more years. And you can't stockpile RB and TE like you can with some defensive positions because those guys rotate in/out more. Now, not only are they not performing, but their salary cap implications prevent the FO from finding a suitable replacement. Now the "next man up" needs to probably be that sooner than later.

[lobachevsky]

Would you take the time to go a step further and identify the players in the categories you list -- or at least:

A core of 8-12 key players signed long-term to relatively lucrative contracts
and
First-stringers (starters & rotational personnel) who are still playing under their cheap rookie deals

THANX!

Well, let me take a whack at an approximate answer (keep in mind this is JMO & subject to change):

Category 1: Flacco, Monroe, Yanda, Suggs, Jimmy Smith, Webb, Pitta, Koch. (Notable former members: Ngata, Rice, #52, Reeeeeeeed, Heap, Boldin)

Category 2: KO, Juice, Wagner, Mosley, MBrown (rot), BWill, Gillmore, Jernigan (rot), Maxx (rot). Davis (rot), KLM (rot), Urban (rot), Talialferro (rot), Tucker, Upshaw (rot). (Notable former members: McPhee, Kruger, Ellerbe, Torrey, Art Jones, Oher, Pierce)

Category 3: Hurst, Campy, Urschel, Jensen (could all be in Cat 2), TBrooks, Elam (still), Buck Allen, Boyle, Orr, ZaSmith, Melvin, Waller, Walker, ABrown. (Notable former members: See Category 2.)

Category 4: Forsett, Zuttah, Doom (these might qualify as Cat 1 but contracts aren't large), DSmith, SSSR, Arrington (these might qualify as Cat 1 except for age & contract length), Will Hill, Kendrick Lewis, Guy, Bilukidi, Canty, Schaub. (Notable former members: Corey Graham, Jacoby.)

Kinda hard to figure where to put guys signed off other practice squads or released by other teams with not a lot of years in the league (Aiken, Melvin, Guy, Bilikudi). Not really vets but not home-grown--sort of Category 3.5.

Candidates for elevation from 2 to 1 in the next couple of years: Tucker, Mosley, KO, BWill, Wagner, Jernigan; also Juice & Upshaw if cap-friendly.

NB this is off the top of my head--if I missed someone, a miss is as good as a mile, a briss is as good as a moyel --& a mistress is midway between a mister & a mattress.

You're very welcome!