Would it make sense from a 'futures' perpspective not to ask Upshaw to rush QBs this season?

[Mark]

Had to make sure the original post wasn't dated April 1st.

[Jazz1988]

College numbers and awards are often very misleading.

Probably 7 of his 9.5 sacks were long developing coverage sacks. He simply does not have the explosion or rush moves/counters to be a big sack guy...it's the reason he fell into the second round.

Upshaw supposely been working on his craft as a pass rusher and even lost weight to add more quickness and etc to his game.. I seen reports saying he looks more quick/agile so I wouldn't totally rule him out in the pass rush department if it does indeed help..

[JAB1985]

I dont think Upshaw sniffs 7 sacks. Hes just not a passrusher. so the point is a little moot imo.

if he miraculously was a 7-10 sack guy, Id rather get those sacks this year and have a better shot at winning and wave goodbye next than not get those and possibly lose more games just to keep a guy at a discount, that never proved to be a passrusher in the first place.

[BlackBeak]

It's an interesting theory, but I think you're overthinking it. There is a very simple reason why players are given more opportunity to succeed in their walk years, a reason Ozzie has stated over and over again: players get better. Rookie contracts are effectively four years. Kruger was much better after four years, once they figured out where he was going to play. Art Jones started as a rotational guy, but by year 4 he deserved to start, and is why we were able to let Redding go. McPhee came in with some promise as a rookie, but it wasn't until his walk year that he really found a role.

The Ravens sole motivation on their gameday decisions is "who can best help us win?" Period.

We still have the same guys coming off the edges; that hasn't changed from last year. Upshaw is not going to be taking over for those guys. So if he's going to get sacks, it's either going to be a) from the inside, in the McPhee role, or b) getting lucky on some run blitzes on some run downs. He's so good at setting the edge though, I can't see too much of 'b.'

Of course players are going to develop, and of course both the player and the organization know and expect the most motivation-wise from a player during a contract year. It's a perfect example of a win-win. My point is that the Ravens keep it rather transparent that they run things that way and that by behaving as the original post proposed would be a significant break from their philosphy, one that would have an ugly ripple effect. Whether they org does it because the won-loss record benefits benefits or because the player benefits is moot. Come contract year everyone's happy when the arrangement works as intended: players, coaches, FO and, fans (except some fans when they lost a favorite player to a big payday, but they tend to get over it).

I'll venture that the coaches and FO take some extra measures to protect their reputation and send the message that contract year players get a legitimate opportunity. At the very least they will have to screw up big time to get into the Harbs dog house.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Upshaw supposely been working on his craft as a pass rusher and even lost weight to add more quickness and etc to his game.. I seen reports saying he looks more quick/agile so I wouldn't totally rule him out in the pass rush department if it does indeed help..

Where'd you hear that he lost weight?

[The Excellector]

Where'd you hear that he lost weight?

Jenny Craig.

[alienstar]

Upshaw supposely been working on his craft as a pass rusher and even lost weight to add more quickness and etc to his game.. I seen reports saying he looks more quick/agile so I wouldn't totally rule him out in the pass rush department if it does indeed help..

While Upshaw is considered a "dirty work", kind of player, his football IQ has been talked about in a very positive light. He has been able to accomplish/master the assignments that the Ravens have thrown his way. And while Jarrett Johnson was changing positions, Upshaw has made his mark way faster than JJ ever did. He if developed himself into a legit pass rushing threat it would not shock me.

Also, as the original poster of this thread, I did not come up with the idea of limiting his opportunities as a pass rusher for the season. I simply posed the question, could and do these things happen. Was simply asking for thoughts on it. If I'm understanding the responses correctly, I think most folks are saying if he is ready to contribute to the rush, he will be asked now rather than waiting a season. I still stand by the idea that adding a good number of sacks in 2015 to Upshaw's resume, could price him out of being a Raven.

[alienstar]

College numbers and awards are often very misleading.

Probably 7 of his 9.5 sacks were long developing coverage sacks. He simply does not have the explosion or rush moves/counters to be a big sack guy...it's the reason he fell into the second round.

Of course this is generally true, but it is a far cry from having a player that never could get to a QB at any level. Also, is this really the reason he was a 2nd rounder? I'd not seen that. I thought it was that's were he graded out all along, despite any single perceived or real deficiency. As a matter of trying to remember, I thought he came into the draft with perceived pass rush potential. Not sure.

Edit: Looking back at multiple pre-draft profiles, it was versatility including pass rush that put Upshaw on the map. Courtney's lack of pass rush wasn't why he was 'held back' to the second round, pass rush actually helped propell his status. And as if the second round is a holding bin for lesser players, nonsense, right. I don't want to be conflicting, but convince me by supporting rather bold statements.

Where do these statements come from. Part of the post quoted above just seems like non-fact. The bad part is that a long and respected user of the forum makes a non-factual assertion, others read it and figure "well that must be the truth".

On another Ravens forum, many called Upshaw mediocre, and wouldn't mind if he walked or was replaced. They don't pay attention. PFF has Upshaw as a top 5 edge setter in the league, also the 'eye' test.
While that is not germaine to the topic here, thought I'd toss it in.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Of course this is generally true, but it is a far cry from having a player that never could get to a QB at any level. Also, is this really the reason he was a 2nd rounder? I'd not seen that. I thought it was that's were he graded out all along, despite any single perceived or real deficiency. As a matter of trying to remember, I thought he came into the draft with perceived pass rush potential. Not sure.

Edit: Looking back at multiple pre-draft profiles, it was versatility including pass rush that put Upshaw on the map. Courtney's lack of pass rush wasn't why he was 'held back' to the second round, pass rush actually helped propell his status. And as if the second round is a holding bin for lesser players, nonsense, right. I don't want to be conflicting, but convince me by supporting rather bold statements.

Where do these statements come from. Part of the post quoted above just seems like non-fact. The bad part is that a long and respected user of the forum makes a non-factual assertion, others read it and figure "well that must be the truth".

On another Ravens forum, many called Upshaw mediocre, and wouldn't mind if he walked or was replaced. They don't pay attention. PFF has Upshaw as a top 5 edge setter in the league, also the 'eye' test.
While that is not germaine to the topic here, thought I'd toss it in.

Well first and foremost, I did not mention edge setting because that's not asked in this thread. It's specific to pass rushing. He is absolutely a good run defender and nowhere in my post did I call him mediocre. IMHO, however, he is replaceable. Jarret Johnson like.

As for his pass rushing in college...look at this tape.

https://youtu.be/qRTKJBnWA2s

Sack 1. Unblocked

Sack 2. He's being blocked well, QB drifts for some reason right to him and goes down with a glancing touch.

Sack 3. Hell of a bull rush inside. Quality stuff there.

Sack 4. Unblocked

Sack 5. Good bull rush outside...James Harrison esque...

Sack 6. Nice spin after being chipped.

Sack 7. Coverage sack

Sack 8. Nice hands to get the edge

Sack 9. Unblocked

Sack 10. Nice move on a college H-Back.

So he probably had maybe half of his sacks with quality pass rushing moves. That's not a lot to look at IMHO as a guy who is going to give you much in the pro's as a pass rusher.

I do think I should have said "part of the reason he slid to the second" as opposed to "the" reason. And just to rejog my memory...I just pulled up 3 mock drafts and all had him going in the second half of the first round. No he wasn't a first round lock, but he was thought of a probable first rounder by quite a few.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000...2012-nfl-draft

http://walterfootball.com/draft2012_1.php

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2013/12/14/mock-draft

So no, I was not talking out of my ass...

He

[esmd]

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[alienstar]

Well first and foremost, I did not mention edge setting because that's not asked in this thread. It's specific to pass rushing. He is absolutely a good run defender and nowhere in my post did I call him mediocre. IMHO, however, he is replaceable. Jarret Johnson like.

As for his pass rushing in college...look at this tape.

https://youtu.be/qRTKJBnWA2s

Sack 1. Unblocked

Sack 2. He's being blocked well, QB drifts for some reason right to him and goes down with a glancing touch.

Sack 3. Hell of a bull rush inside. Quality stuff there.

Sack 4. Unblocked

Sack 5. Good bull rush outside...James Harrison esque...

Sack 6. Nice spin after being chipped.

Sack 7. Coverage sack

Sack 8. Nice hands to get the edge

Sack 9. Unblocked

Sack 10. Nice move on a college H-Back.

So he probably had maybe half of his sacks with quality pass rushing moves. That's not a lot to look at IMHO as a guy who is going to give you much in the pro's as a pass rusher.

I do think I should have said "part of the reason he slid to the second" as opposed to "the" reason. And just to rejog my memory...I just pulled up 3 mock drafts and all had him going in the second half of the first round. No he wasn't a first round lock, but he was thought of a probable first rounder by quite a few.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000...2012-nfl-draft

http://walterfootball.com/draft2012_1.php

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2013/12/14/mock-draft

So no, I was not talking out of my ass...

He

I didn't think you were talking out of your arse, as I have read many of your posts for a long time and would not suggest that. I just didn't think his pass rush potential or lack there of landed him where he went in the draft.