The Snake has Passed

**moose10101** · 07-10-2015, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Raven Werewolf

RIP. Well before my time but seeing highlights etc he was sure exciting to watch never mind his off the field personality.

I was wondering about something. I saw where him and Namath were teammates at Bama and I happened to look up their stats. (college and pro) How is Namath is in the HOF and Stabler isn't? Their stats are almost identical and actually Stablers look a little better. I don't know if its the NY bias or the anti Raider thing that some people think is out there..... just seem odd to me.

Yes, there's NY bias, but the whole story of SB III made Namath's career. It was one of the most significant games in NFL(/AFL) history.

**Ravenswintitle** · 07-10-2015, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Raven Werewolf

RIP. Well before my time but seeing highlights etc he was sure exciting to watch never mind his off the field personality.

I was wondering about something. I saw where him and Namath were teammates at Bama and I happened to look up their stats. (college and pro) How is Namath is in the HOF and Stabler isn't? Their stats are almost identical and actually Stablers look a little better. I don't know if its the NY bias or the anti Raider thing that some people think is out there..... just seem odd to me.

I've always heard a couple of reasons. First, quite a few of his teammates are already in the HOF, giving some to think he had fantastic supporting cast around him. Secondly he threw a LOT of interceptions and that is a knock.

He did get nominated a few times in the early 90's but not since then that I'm aware of.

**alienrace** · 07-10-2015, 10:00 AM

I always thought Stabler should be in the HOF. He was a legend in the 70's. Quintessential gunslinging, freewheeling, big game QB. His stats got mucked up from his time with the Oilers and Saints after his Raider days, where he was pretty damn amazing and exciting to watch. The clip of him coming out of the tunnel with two hot cheerleaders on his arms is classic.

RIP Snake.

**NC Raven** · 07-10-2015, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by moose10101

Yes, there's NY bias, but the whole story of SB III made Namath's career. It was one of the most significant games in NFL(/AFL) history.

Exactly. If the Hall of Fame is based on "being famous" then Namath gets in. He is famous for being famous, mostly. Other QBs got in with bad numbers like his so he's not the only one; at the time he went in, the world was a lot less focused on stats and much more focused on fame, legend, and personality. Based on those things of course, he had the kind of story that everybody liked to hear and talk about, and that was that. He was "famous" so they put him in the Hall of "Fame."

Stabler had all of those things as well, plus he was a better player. Normally I despise the click-bait like over at PFT where a guy's body isn't even cold yet so "Hey let's take advantage of this fatality to score some clicks by dusting off the old 'let's get good ole so-and-so in the Hall of Fame" canard, but in this case I have no argument with it. He belongs, if for no other reason, based on the criteria in place at the time he played.

**HotInHere** · 07-11-2015, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by moose10101

Yes, there's NY bias, but the whole story of SB III made Namath's career. It was one of the most significant games in NFL(/AFL) history.

Then put Matt Snell in the HoF, because it was his 121 yards that won that. That and the Jets defense shutting out the Colts for three quarters. And Shula starting Morrall over the greatest QB in football.

I get the literal interpretation of Hall of FAME, but you need more than mink coats, pantyhose, and bold predictions to be deserving of Canton,

**HoustonRaven** · 07-11-2015, 08:26 AM

One undeserving player gets in from the Jets and there's a NY bias? I don't see it.

**HotInHere** · 07-11-2015, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

One undeserving player gets in from the Jets and there's a NY bias? I don't see it.

If Namath played for the Oilers, and they beat the Colts in SBIII, do you think he's in the Hall?

**HoustonRaven** · 07-11-2015, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by HotInHere

If Namath played for the Oilers, and they beat the Colts in SBIII, do you think he's in the Hall?

Who knows. But he's old enough he should be evaluated within the context of his era, not by today's standards.

His numbers are skewed down a bit because he held on too long and had a higher than average number of injuries. Take him and plop him in the modern NFL and no, he doesn't deserve to be in. But back then, when the game was more physical, no QB protections, more emphasis on running, etc and I can see why he was voted in.

I'm by no means claiming he's the greatest ever (or even close to that title). But when evaluating him in his own time, it's justified that he was inducted.

**GOTA** · 07-11-2015, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Raven Werewolf

RIP. Well before my time but seeing highlights etc he was sure exciting to watch never mind his off the field personality.

I was wondering about something. I saw where him and Namath were teammates at Bama and I happened to look up their stats. (college and pro) How is Namath is in the HOF and Stabler isn't? Their stats are almost identical and actually Stablers look a little better. I don't know if its the NY bias or the anti Raider thing that some people think is out there..... just seem odd to me.

Namath had a bigger impact on the growth of the NFL and pro football in general. Namath grows a goofy mustache and suddenly everyone is doing it. Namath starts wearing fur coats and they can't keep them in stock. Namath guarantees the Jets will win the Super Bowl and a million NFL fans are created overnight.

None of that has to do with on the field performance but I've heard interviews with some of the voters from that time and that's what they said. I hate it because it's completely different criteria from other players. Snake absolutely be a Hall of Famer. It never should have been a question. Stabler's stats aren't just similar to Namath's. They are also very close to Terry Bradshaw's. That's 2 contemporaries both with Super Bowl wins like Stabler, with similar stats who are in the HOF. No way should Snake be left out.

**lovefootball** · 07-11-2015, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Namath had a bigger impact on the growth of the NFL and pro football in general. Namath grows a goofy mustache and suddenly everyone is doing it. Namath starts wearing fur coats and they can't keep them in stock. Namath guarantees the Jets will win the Super Bowl and a million NFL fans are created overnight.

None of that has to do with on the field performance but I've heard interviews with some of the voters from that time and that's what they said. I hate it because it's completely different criteria from other players. Snake absolutely be a Hall of Famer. It never should have been a question. Stabler's stats aren't just similar to Namath's. They are also very close to Terry Bradshaw's. That's 2 contemporaries both with Super Bowl wins like Stabler, with similar stats who are in the HOF. No way should Snake be left out.

In Namath's case , right time, right SB and being popular with his bravado. Other then that, he was average at best. Can't change the past, like the pats, it's in the history books. SMH

**Bawlamer** · 07-11-2015, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by HotInHere

Then put Matt Snell in the HoF, because it was his 121 yards that won that. That and the Jets defense shutting out the Colts for three quarters. And Shula starting Morrall over the greatest QB in football.

I get the literal interpretation of Hall of FAME, but you need more than mink coats, pantyhose, and bold predictions to be deserving of Canton,

There is no greater fan than U than I, but, his greatness was pretty much gone by that time. Shula made the right call. Unitas tried to bring them back but the arm just wasn't there anymore. He made a few good passes. The others not so good. His will to win and mental prowess got the Colts closer but it was too much to ask of this veteran. The game was a lot rougher then and Johnny was pretty beat up but healthy enough to play. His elbow was in constant pain Although he rebounded nicely in 1970. Moral led the league in passer rating (93.2) during the regular season. The Jets zone defense was on that day. If you watch the footage and examine the play by play stats it wasn't a stellar day for either. Can't find fault with Don's decision. He went with what worked all year including 10 in a row. IMO

**JohnBKistler** · 07-12-2015, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Stabler will always be remembered in Baltimore for the "Ghost to the Post". This was perhaps the most exciting game in our football history, pitting NFL MVP Bert Jones against "the Snake" in a wild shootout, with 9 lead changes and, finally: the agony of defeat.

Up until the 2012 Denver playoff game, I would agree that the Christmas Eve game against the Raiders was the most exciting. I would put them at 1 and 1a.

For us older Baltimore football fans, the Ghost to the Post game was really a milestone - and a dark one at that - in our football history. Although nobody knew it at the time, it was the tipping point of the destruction of the Baltimore Colts. It had begun with the trade of the team to Robert Irsay five years prior in 1972. And in the 5 years after the game, it was a rapidly increasing decline of traded and released veteran players, fired coaches, botched drafts, helicopter rides, bizarre press conferences, political grandstanding and, finally, moving vans and darkness.

For an entire generation of Baltimore football fans, the Ghost to the Post game represented what many of us thought at the time was the last, great Baltimore football memory.

And the fact that Baltimore returned to the NFL against the same Raiders represented a rather symmetrical touch to our journey as Baltimore football fans.