Freddie Gray

[JAB1985]

It wasn't completely severed. So he basically had a broken neck. I think it's plausible that if a man in handcuffs in the back of a police van (which is, in essence, a steal cage on wheels) could break any bone in his body, neck included, if they were flailing about.

fair enough.

I heard severed spine, not neck. neck is a lot more susceptible to self injury, imo.

[blah3]

keep in mind i think there is a distinction here between just running and running away from police. if they didnt make contact with him prior, i view that as just running, contact for questioning or matches a description of somebody that commited a crime, thats fine by me.

So a cop makes eye contact with a guy in a high crime/drug area and flees, and yet you don't find that suspicious?

There could be legitimate complaints with police action in this whole case, but the chase and arrest are not part of those possible legitimate complaints.

[blah3]

fair enough.

I heard severed spine, not neck. neck is a lot more susceptible to self injury, imo.

Neck is considered upper part of spine. Fractured neck could have damaged the spinal cord.

[HoustonRaven]

keep in mind i think there is a distinction here between just running and running away from police. if they didnt make contact with him prior, i view that as just running, contact for questioning or matches a description of somebody that commited a crime, thats fine by me.

I consider someone in sneakers, UA gear and proper running shoes to be "just running". When you're a cop on a bike on patrol in a known drug trafficking area and someone not wearing said clothing runs away from upon seeing you is suspicious at best.

Now that said, I've let plenty of people run at my sight because I really could care less about a humble possession charge. Cops have that discretion.

[JAB1985]

So a cop makes eye contact with a guy in a high crime/drug area and flees, and yet you don't find that suspicious?

There could be legitimate complaints with police action in this whole case, but the chase and arrest are not part of those possible legitimate complaints.

so eye contact is criminal offense? I mean this is a similar argument to saying a guy in a hoodie is suspicious. I dont agree with it.

there used to be a time where street police just patrolled and if they actually saw something thats when they acted. Detectives were the guys that hid in plain sight. now it seems patrolmen are just arresting anybody and everybody they deem suspicious and trying to pin something on them after the fact. thats not how its suppose to work. theres a reason Baltimore, a city of 600k, had over 100k arrests. its stupid petty shit mostly, like carrying a knife (his lawyer says it was legal btw), open containers, misdemeanor shit.

[JAB1985]

I consider someone in sneakers, UA gear and proper running shoes to be "just running". When you're a cop on a bike on patrol in a known drug trafficking area and someone not wearing said clothing runs away from upon seeing you is suspicious at best.

Now that said, I've let plenty of people run at my sight because I really could care less about a humble possession charge. Cops have that discretion.

I agree and your later part I think goes to my last post. there used to be a time when somebody ran you just took note of it. considered them running off, stopping them from what they were doing, which is your job as a patrolman.

I just look at it as, ive run through some bad parts of the town. just because ive made eye contact with a cop doesnt mean i was running from him. the zero tolerance policing puts a bad connection with cops in peoples heads, so even those not guilty of anything dont get warm fuzzies about sticking around them. theres a history there that goes into this.

[wickedsolo]

OK, I have to say here that this attitude assists in the perpetuation that cops are out to get blacks. I'm sure you are not purposefully doing it, but it's there. Your looking for fault in the cops for doing their job. Now, if you look at the facts, this guy probably dealt drugs. So the cops were absolutely correct in their determination that someone fleeing from cops is highly suspicious.

The focus on the chase and arrest is not helpful. They were both perfectly legitimate.

No, what I'm saying is we don't know why the cops decided to chase him in the first place.

If they saw him slinging, then that's one thing, but to my knowledge their initial reasoning for chasing him has not been substantiated yet.

My point about the cops needing to use a bit of objectivity is that other people run from the cops because they don't trust cops and they've been brought up to understand that cops are bad and out to get them. I'm not perpetuating anything. That is a fact. You go to any corner in Baltimore and ask some fellas about their thoughts on cops and then see what they say. They're afraid of them. They're afraid that a cop is going to roll up on their corner and toss them into the back of a squad car.

And just because you don't find the focus on the chase "helpful" (whatever the hell that means) doesn't mean that others aren't curious about why they were chasing him in the first place. If it was legitimate, then what was it? Tell us.

[wickedsolo]

I consider someone in sneakers, UA gear and proper running shoes to be "just running". When you're a cop on a bike on patrol in a known drug trafficking area and someone not wearing said clothing runs away from upon seeing you is suspicious at best.

Now that said, I've let plenty of people run at my sight because I really could care less about a humble possession charge. Cops have that discretion.

:word

[wickedsolo]

I consider someone in sneakers, UA gear and proper running shoes to be "just running". When you're a cop on a bike on patrol in a known drug trafficking area and someone not wearing said clothing runs away from upon seeing you is suspicious at best.

Now that said, I've let plenty of people run at my sight because I really could care less about a humble possession charge. Cops have that discretion.

:word

[blah3]

No, what I'm saying is we don't know why the cops decided to chase him in the first place.

If they saw him slinging, then that's one thing, but to my knowledge their initial reasoning for chasing him has not been substantiated yet.

My point about the cops needing to use a bit of objectivity is that other people run from the cops because they don't trust cops and they've been brought up to understand that cops are bad and out to get them. I'm not perpetuating anything. That is a fact. You go to any corner in Baltimore and ask some fellas about their thoughts on cops and then see what they say. They're afraid of them. They're afraid that a cop is going to roll up on their corner and toss them into the back of a squad car.

And just because you don't find the focus on the chase "helpful" (whatever the hell that means) doesn't mean that others aren't curious about why they were chasing him in the first place. If it was legitimate, then what was it? Tell us.

You've been told the reason. You just don't like the answer. So yes, you are indeed perpetuating false notions.
Now, you may think it minor, but do you think casting aspersions on cops legitimate actions helps or hurts your belief about how blacks view cops? Do you think then that the surrounding community is going to be helpful with the cops to keep the area in which the live safer? Do you think that lady in the video screaming 'his leg broke and you all dragging him like that' is going to be reliable in any statement? And people are not reliable in statements make the polices' job harder.

So you have a guy, who is not in running attire, nor did he appear to trying to get somewhere in a hurry, runs specifically because he saw a cop. Turns out that man has a history of drug related crimes and was to appear in court soon. That actually sounds like good policing.

The part in this story that is questionable is how the man got severely hurt and wound up dead.

[The Fanatic]

I've been following this case almost daily.
Don't have much choice in the matter if you live here in the balto. metro area anywhere and like to watch the evening news as well as now the national news.

As far as whether or not the police had cause to stop Freddie Gray or not is irrelevant IMO.
Don't care how old you are, what color you are, etc.
If the police are in the area patrolling and doing what they do..policing, looking for crime and hopefully protecting the public and you run away in a suspicious nature as soon as you are seen, they yell at you to stop and you don't?

You pretty much brought on the chase yourself particularly if you're a guy that's already been in an abundance of trouble, been arrested and/or in jail multiple times and/or are still waiting to go to court on other incidents of violating the law.

That kinda makes you the type of guy the police are patrolling to protect the area from to begin with.
There are some serious screw ups by the police going on here and quite frankly the system of how things are done in general.

Some of those screw ups are that we continue to let repeated criminals out on the streets with a slap on the wrist so they can go out and get themselves in trouble again. Over and over and over.

It's kinda insanity if you ask me!!

Sometimes these same repeat offenders escalate the nature of their crime and next thing you know they've killed somebody completely innocent in a gang war, drive by or something because of them still being on the street.
This includes little innocent kids that are unfortunately forced to live in these areas due to their familys economic situations, etc.

With that being said....

There are a number of storys out now in the Baltimore Sun about this whole situation, Freddie Grays upbringing, etc.

Start With This One

Apparently Freddie Grey isn't the first one to suffer a severe injury or death in the back of one of these vans.

Further more he apparently wasn't buckled in the way he's supposed to be buckled in so no wonder he was flailing around.
In addition he also apparently stated that he couldn't breath or something and needed an inhalor and medical attention which wasn't provided or called in the proper time or by policy of how it's supposed to be done either.

And why the hell are we using these types of vans for transport anyway?

They are cargo vans not designed to properly restrain a human being from injury if an accident occurs regardless of that bullshit lap belt system inside or not.

No matter how bad of a dude Freddie Grey was, he didn't deserve to be treated like a piece of meat with no regard of his health and well being in the back of that van.
Fucking ridiculous if you ask me!!

And then you want to know why there are all these uproars from the inner city neighborhoods against the police that we see on national TV almost daily now.
Stuff like this is why!!

[HoustonRaven]

You've been told the reason. You just don't like the answer. So yes, you are indeed perpetuating false notions.
Now, you may think it minor, but do you think casting aspersions on cops legitimate actions helps or hurts your belief about how blacks view cops? Do you think then that the surrounding community is going to be helpful with the cops to keep the area in which the live safer? Do you think that lady in the video screaming 'his leg broke and you all dragging him like that' is going to be reliable in any statement? And people are not reliable in statements make the polices' job harder.

So you have a guy, who is not in running attire, nor did he appear to trying to get somewhere in a hurry, runs specifically because he saw a cop. Turns out that man has a history of drug related crimes and was to appear in court soon. That actually sounds like good policing.

The part in this story that is questionable is how the man got severely hurt and wound up dead.

What makes the police's job harder is changing someone for simply running away. If you knock around everyone in the neighborhood, you have nobody to talk to when the shit really hits the fan because they all resent you. Sure, he mat have been legally justified for running down Gray and detaining. That doesn't mean it's good or smart policing.

I don't see what his past arrests have anything to do with this case. If there was no probable cause in this case, it's all the more irrelevant and tells me that's subterfuge to hide the bad PC.