Can Joe Be Successful With His Current Cast?

[Sarcasticfury]

First off, let me make this clear: I'm not in any way advocating for the Ravens not to make any moves in the draft at WR/TE. If Strong, Williams or any other of those guys fall to the Ravens they should grab them. What I am asking is whether Joe, a quality QB, can be successful (20+ TDs, 3,000-4,000 yards, 10-12 picks) with his current group of pass catchers if he gets good protection and a capable run game.

I'm asking this because there's plenty of top quarterbacks in the league who have made their pass catchers stars despite constant attrition/low investments. Also remember that the Ravens use the WCO now, not Cams outdated scheme.

Phillip Rivers with Antonio Gates and Malcolm Floyd (both undrafted)

Ben Roethlisberger getting guys like Antwaan Randle-El, Santonio Holmes, Nate Washington, Mike Wallace, and Emmanuel Sanders paid (and only Washington and Sanders have actually lived up to their deals) and turning late rounder Antonio Brown into a star.

Tom Brady with everyone not named Randy Moss or Rob Gronkowski.

Eli Manning with the other Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, undrafted Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, and all of the nameless tight ends he's worked with.

Aaron Rodgers with Greg Jennings, James Jones (both of which got paid and failed to meet expectations) Randall Cobb, and Jordy Nelson.

Drew Brees with Marques Colston (a few picks away from Mr. Irrelevant), Lance Moore (undrafted), Devery Henderson, and Robert Meachem (got paid and then cut the very next year).

Russell Wilson puts up numbers close to Joe with a WR corps mostly made up of undrafteds and mid round tight ends.

So if all of those guys can do it why can't Joe, who in my opinion is somewhere near Eli and Roethlisberger in terms of QB rankings?

[redmike34]

First off, let me make this clear: I'm not in any way advocating for the Ravens not to make any moves in the draft at WR/TE. If Strong, Williams or any other of those guys fall to the Ravens they should grab them. What I am asking is whether Joe, a quality QB, can be successful (20+ TDs, 3,000-4,000 yards, 10-12 picks) with his current group of pass catchers if he gets good protection and a capable run game.

I'm asking this because there's plenty of top quarterbacks in the league who have made their pass catchers stars despite constant attrition/low investments. Also remember that the Ravens use the WCO now, not Cams outdated scheme.

Phillip Rivers with Antonio Gates and Malcolm Floyd (both undrafted)

Ben Roethlisberger getting guys like Antwaan Randle-El, Santonio Holmes, Nate Washington, Mike Wallace, and Emmanuel Sanders paid (and only Washington and Sanders have actually lived up to their deals) and turning late rounder Antonio Brown into a star.

Tom Brady with everyone not named Randy Moss or Rob Gronkowski.

Eli Manning with the other Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, undrafted Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, and all of the nameless tight ends he's worked with.

Aaron Rodgers with Greg Jennings, James Jones (both of which got paid and failed to meet expectations) Randall Cobb, and Jordy Nelson.

Drew Brees with Marques Colston (a few picks away from Mr. Irrelevant), Lance Moore (undrafted), Devery Henderson, and Robert Meachem (got paid and then cut the very next year).

Russell Wilson puts up numbers close to Joe with a WR corps mostly made up of undrafteds and mid round tight ends.

So if all of those guys can do it why can't Joe, who in my opinion is somewhere near Eli and Roethlisberger in terms of QB rankings?

IMO... the front office paid him what they did because they believe that he could be successful with the current cast, or one similar to it.

Which is not to say that they won't add to the cast...

[lovefootball]

He's doing the best he can since he came into the league. He's now working with his 3rd OC and has done all that the previous OC's have ask. Bad Oline, weak receivers who can't separate or hold on to the ball . It's football, there are no guarantees with any player, no matter how great they are. In a perfect offense, even tony romo or dalton can look good, LOL. Flacco hasn't seen it yet, but the FO is trying to protect their 20 mil a year QB. If the receivers can do their job this year, Flacco can be successful.

[Sarcasticfury]

He's doing the best he can since he came into the league. He's now working with his 3rd OC and has done all that the previous OC's have ask. Bad Oline, weak receivers who can't separate or hold on to the ball . It's football, there are no guarantees with any player, no matter how great they are. In a perfect offense, even tony romo or dalton can look good, LOL. Flacco hasn't seen it yet, but the FO is trying to protect their 20 mil a year QB. If the receivers can do their job this year, Flacco can be successful.

Actually Flacco is on his 4th OC. But your point still stands.

[BlackBeak]

They took the eventual super bowl champions to the wire with this cast minus Owen Daniels and Torrey. The thing is I was on this board all last season and I don't recall many if any talking like either of them was indispensable. That being said they have to find a WR who can stretch the field ecause its makes problems for defenses to have speed + Joe's arm. I think they can find that in the draft but it seems way off for this front office to go into a draft with a need. I can see them sticking with Gilmore, but he needs someone other than Naw for depth if nothing else.

[bt12483]

I'm asking this because there's plenty of top quarterbacks in the league who have made their pass catchers stars despite constant attrition/low investments.

Let's see just how flawed this is...I don't even know where to begin.

Phillip Rivers with Antonio Gates and Malcolm Floyd (both undrafted)

1) Gates is likely a HoFer with or without Rivers.

2) Malcolm Floyd is a nobody.

3) I guess you forgot about 2nd rd pick Vincent Jackson, 3rd rd pick Keenan Allen.

Ben Roethlisberger getting guys like Antwaan Randle-El, Santonio Holmes, Nate Washington, Mike Wallace, and Emmanuel Sanders paid (and only Washington and Sanders have actually lived up to their deals) and turning late rounder Antonio Brown into a star.

Holmes was a 1st rd pick. Super Bowl MVP.
Randle-El. Second rd pick.
Wallace and Sanders 3rd rd picks.
Brown - needle in a haystack, like Brady.

Seems most of those WRs were HIGH draft picks, no? How is that "low investment"??? Seems like HIGH investment to me.

Tom Brady with everyone not named Randy Moss or Rob Gronkowski.

Both Moss and Gronk were/are phenomenal. Elite.

Eli Manning with the other Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, undrafted Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, and all of the nameless tight ends he's worked with.

Ummm...Nick was a 1st rd pick.

Steve Smith a 2nd rd pick.

Manningham a 3rd rd pick.

Oh, and gee Rueben randle was a 2nd rd pick and Beckham a 1st rd pick.

How is that "low investment"??? TWO 1st rd WRs. Flacco has never had ONE.

Aaron Rodgers with Greg Jennings, James Jones (both of which got paid and failed to meet expectations) Randall Cobb, and Jordy Nelson.

WTF are you even talking about at this point?

Jennings, Nelson and Cobb were 2nd rd picks.
James Jones a 3rd rd pick.

Uh...that's tons of investment at WR. No matter how you slice it.

Drew Brees with Marques Colston (a few picks away from Mr. Irrelevant), Lance Moore (undrafted), Devery Henderson, and Robert Meachem (got paid and then cut the very next year).

Plus offensive guru Sean Payton, in a dome, in a shit division.

Russell Wilson puts up numbers close to Joe with a WR corps mostly made up of undrafteds and mid round tight ends.

And yet the Seahawks saw fit to spend TWO 1st rd picks on Percy and Graham. WEIRD.

So if all of those guys can do it why can't Joe, who in my opinion is somewhere near Eli and Roethlisberger in terms of QB rankings?

In view of the above, I don't think you thought this post out very well. Did you even bother to investigate what rds these WRS were drafted in?

The level of talent the above QBs have had is clear as day superior than Flacco has ever had.

Flacco had NEVER had a 1st rd WR drafted for him. His top WRS have basically all been 30+ years old.

And now he has a squad of primarily UDFAs.

He has had ONE WR drafted rd 2 or higher, and guess what??? HE JUST GOT PAID $40M BY ANOTHER TEAM!!!! Isn't that the same prerequisite you mentioned above for all of these other QBs? Getting WRs paid? Well...Torrey Smith just got PAID.

Jacoby Jones was a no name that got cut, and then became a playoff and SB star...largely because of Flacco.

So...this post of yours just absolutely falls flat on its face. I don't want to be overly mean...but, seriously, I just destroyed the entire basis of your post. None of these other guys are being asked to work with the amount of low rd WR talent Flacco is.

[bt12483]

I mean seriously, here is the WR investment since Flacco was drafted:

Reed 5th
Smith 2nd
Doss 4th
Streeter 6th
Mellette 7th
Campanaro 7th

In what world does that compare to Aaron Rodgers, who has had
Jennings 2nd
Jones 3rd
Nelson 2nd
Cobb 2nd

The talent level, based on draft position, is not even comparable.

Gee how about lil ol Eli, who has only had TWO 1st's, TWO 2nd's AND a 3rd rd WR drafted for him.

Yeah...he is totally making something from nothing up there in NY...Man what "low investment" at WR...

[WrongBaldy]

im not sure why ur so mad. this is how the ravens decide to build their team. we try to draft really good defense and on offense go mostly O line and Rb and get the rest of the pieces thru FA.
its been working more than not. i agree we would all like to see more offense drafted early on but ozzie and eric set up the agenda for the Ravens not us and they seem to have success so i dont see them changing it.

[bt12483]

To act like these other QBs have been working with table scraps is both factually and intellectually dishonest.

There is a clear dividing line, where these other QBs are generally getting wrs rd 3 or higher, and Flacco is getting rd 4 or lower.

Even a rudimentary analysis of draft pick expenditure shows this

[Bhcforlife]

If the definition of successful is individual stats, 20~ TDs, 3-4k yards, and 10~ INTs, then yes, he can be successful. I mean, he was 1/4 of the way to the TD number you have there from one game against TB last year. 2013 when he had by far his worst group of pass catchers, worst OL, and worst running game, he still had 19 TD and 3900 yards (although INTs were way up).

If successful were to mean win the Super Bowl, then no, I don't think so. Not with the group as it is right now.

[BlackBeak]

To act like these other QBs have been working with table scraps is both factually and intellectually dishonest.

There is a clear dividing line, where these other QBs are generally getting wrs rd 3 or higher, and Flacco is getting rd 4 or lower.

Even a rudimentary analysis of draft pick expenditure shows this

You measure players by where they were drafted. Odd.

[bt12483]

You measure players by where they were drafted. Odd.

Yeah. Weird, there is this thing called the NFL Draft where players get selected in 7 different rounds, and the guys that are more talented get selected higher, and generally have better careers.

I guess the entire scouting and ranking industry should call it quits.

And when you are measuring level of investment, you absolutely consider the quantity and quality of draft pick expenditure

Because we all know 7th Rd players turn into stars at a greater rate than 1st rd players, right? Right?