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  1. #25

    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco



    If you're a guy who believes that DURability is as important as ability, then you'd have to give Joe the nod. Also, Joe has managed to play big in big games; Bert not so much.

    But as others have mentioned, from a pure QB ability standpoint, there's no contest. Look at it this way: at one point, Bert was the best QB in the NFL. Joe never has been, and never will be. With Joe, there is an argument about whether the "E"-word even applies to him.

    With Bert in 1976, there was no question about whether he was elite. The only questions were how many championships he would win and what year he would go into the HoF. He was the best I have ever seen; if he was healthy, he would have been John Elway.
    "Leave. Your. Mark."





  2. #26
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    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    We said and showed how Bert was vocal and some of it wasn't good.Fouts was
    a young QB on the same team as Unitas and he stayed late and worked with
    him when the rest of the guys went to the beach after practice. Bert couldnt
    learn from JOhn like that. None of the Ravens young worked with John like
    that when they were in town. I don't think John coached anyone after that.
    Nobody used him much here when he retired.

    Joe has no where near the arm or consistency that Bert had. JOe played
    for a SB franchise and almost went to the SB as a rookie.


    Joe never did this:


    Quarterback Bert Jones spearheaded the Colts' rags-to-riches on-field transition from a 2-12 record in 1974, when Howard Schnellenberger was fired after coaching three games, to 10-4 and an AFC East title in 1975


    If Bert had the Ravens D he would have won
    the SB MVP too and Bert would have hit Torrey in NE. The ball wouldn't
    have been intercepted. That's for sure.

    I said it was a shame Bert couldn't have played on a world championship team.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-09-2015 at 11:02 AM.





  3. #27

    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    Joe has no where near the arm or consistency that Bert had. JOe played
    for a SB franchise and almost went to the SB as a rookie.
    No where near??? Really?? Jones accuracy on the deep ball was better before he got hurt, no doubt, but to say he had a tremendously better arm strength than Joe is a bit over the top if you ask me. I turned 8 in the 1977 season and I remember Bert Jones. I wore a Jones #7 jersey, it was my first football jersey. I remember all the grumbling about him always being hurt too. I also remember how hard he threw EVERYTHING. Joe has much better touch on the short to intermediate throws and throws to flats.

    Joe has never missed a start due to injury in 7 seasons and wins, A LOT of important games. You are right, he probably never will be in the discussion for league MVP, but in my opinion, he is the 2nd best Qb to suit up in the NFL for a Baltimore franchise, and it's not even close.





  4. #28

    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    Comparing Jones to Flacco reminds me like the modern day Joe vs. Matty Icy from a performance level. (Not comparing physical tools at all)

    Bert played in the AFC East where two of the teams had horrible defenses (Buffalo & Jets) and the other two were ok (Dolphins & Patriots). Sorta like Ryan where he had an opportunity to pad his stats in those 8 divisional games. When Jones went up against a good D like Dallas in 1976, he had came back down to earth. And in the playoffs when Jones had to go against the those tough Steelers D, he stunk. And he stunk in the Raiders 77 game. Regular season champ... Postseason chump.... Reminds me of Matty Ice.

    And gimme a break, Air Flacco. That Jones misfire to a completely wide open Raymond Chester in the 77 Raiders game was Andy Dalton-like. Joe's pass in the NE game was not in the same ballpark as that horrible throw. All he had to do was loft the pass a little but Jones choked. The Colts had 22 yds passing thru 3Qs in the Raiders game. Can you imagine Joe having 22 yds passing thru 3 quarters in a playoff game? Watch the game again and see how many dropped INTs the Raiders D had. You said that Bert would have hit Torrey in NE. He might have had but the score in the game would have been 35 - 17 Patriots if Jones has QBing that game, so the point is moot.

    This is what pisses me off about old Colts fans... Jones is totally underrated in the annals of old QBs, but he is somewhat overrated in terms of how old Colts fans view him. I hate crapping on Jones b/c I really liked him... he was my favorite Colt growing up.. but you cannot overlook his playoff performance. That's why I think its crazy to say Jones is better than Joe. If you want a regular season champ over a postseason champ be my guess. I'll take Joe.
    Last edited by ravensnhokies; 03-09-2015 at 12:17 PM.





  5. #29
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    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    Comparing Jones to Flacco reminds me like the modern day Joe vs. Matty Icy from a performance level. (Not comparing physical tools at all)

    Bert played in the AFC East where two of the teams had horrible defenses (Buffalo & Jets) and the other two were ok (Dolphins & Patriots). Sorta like Ryan where he had an opportunity to pad his stats in those 8 divisional games. When Jones went up against a good D like Dallas in 1976, he had came back down to earth. And in the playoffs when Jones had to go against the those tough Steelers D, he stunk. And he stunk in the Raiders 77 game. Regular season champ... Postseason chump.... Reminds me of Matty Ice.

    And gimme a break, Air Flacco. That Jones misfire to a completely wide open Raymond Chester in the 77 Raiders game was Andy Dalton-like. Joe's pass in the NE game was not in the same ballpark as that horrible throw. All he had to do was loft the pass a little but Jones choked. The Colts had 22 yds passing thru 3Qs in the Raiders game. Can you imagine Joe having 22 yds passing thru 3 quarters in a playoff game? Watch the game again and see how many dropped INTs the Raiders D had. You said that Bert would have hit Torrey in NE. He might have had but the score in the game would have been 35 - 17 Patriots if Jones has QBing that game, so the point is moot.

    This is what pisses me off about old Colts fans... Jones is totally underrated in the annals of old QBs, but he is somewhat overrated in terms of how old Colts fans view him. I hate crapping on Jones b/c I really liked him... he was my favorite Colt growing up.. but you cannot overlook his playoff performance. That's why I think its crazy to say Jones is better than Joe. If you want a regular season champ over a postseason champ be my guess. I'll take Joe.
    This is where your emotions are messing with your analysis. Even bad defenses back in the 70's could and did regularly manhandle receivers to the tune that modern passing attacks would just not work back then. Passing vs the best teams in the 70's was a plain nightmare and Jones' games vs the Raiders or Steelers were not awful below what was expected.

    And in saying that it I am not saying Flacco is worse in comparison. Flacco's body would have translated well back in time. And Jones would have ripped modern defenses to shreds. Both can be correct. Jones did win a league MVP aware justly, something Flacco is so far not within the same zip code of finding. Flacco had a postseason that is historic. But you can't focus on ay one play and generalize like you are doing.





  6. #30

    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    Jones may have been a more impressive pure QB, but he ain't got no rings. Joe does.

    No offense to the guy, but not a whole lot of people outside old Colts fans will remember much about Bert Jones. Sadly, much of it can be attributed to Irsay, who was dismantling the team during the height of Jones' career.

    But people remember championships and great moments, and Joe has that while Bert doesn't.

    So, yes, Joe Flacco will be considered the second greatest quarterback in Baltimore football history. Which is sort of like arguing who is the second greatest manager in Baltimore Orioles history.





  7. #31

    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    I was maybe 7 or 8 during Bert Jones' best years. I didn't goto many games back then and I didn't really understand football, but I remember one game I attended when the Colts were pretty bad. Jones was rushed out of the pocket and got creamed. He got up and started yelling at a running back named Curtis Dickey (sp?). After that the running back was sitting on the bench the rest of the game. I never understood what happened on that play. I think Dickey took the play off allowing Jones' to get crushed. But can't say for sure. We didn't have social media back then. :)





  8. #32

    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    Quote Originally Posted by ursula View Post
    This is where your emotions are messing with your analysis. Even bad defenses back in the 70's could and did regularly manhandle receivers to the tune that modern passing attacks would just not work back then. Passing vs the best teams in the 70's was a plain nightmare and Jones' games vs the Raiders or Steelers were not awful below what was expected.

    And in saying that it I am not saying Flacco is worse in comparison. Flacco's body would have translated well back in time. And Jones would have ripped modern defenses to shreds. Both can be correct. But you can't focus on ay one play and generalize like you are doing.
    I am just reacting (yes a little emotionally) to Air Flacco's statement that Jones would have made that pass in NE over Flacco so I compared it to the equally important Jones to Chester misfire. I felt Jones pass was a lot worse. In my original post, I did praise Jones saying that he was a better deep thrower than Joe and he had a better arm.

    As far as the playoffs games, yes, sure I know the 70 D's manhandled the offense, but Bert could've played a lot better. The Colts Sack Pack D was good but Bradshaw and the Snake had good passing games in those 76 & 77 playoff games. Actually, Bradshaw was awesome in that 76 game. Jones played in weak division (look at how poor the Bills and Jets Ds were) so when he went against tough teams with better defenses, he didn't play well. That's not emotionally at all.





  9. #33

    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    I was maybe 7 or 8 during Bert Jones' best years. I didn't goto many games back then and I didn't really understand football, but I remember one game I attended when the Colts were pretty bad. Jones was rushed out of the pocket and got creamed. He got up and started yelling at a running back named Curtis Dickey (sp?). After that the running back was sitting on the bench the rest of the game. I never understood what happened on that play. I think Dickey took the play off allowing Jones' to get crushed. But can't say for sure. We didn't have social media back then. :)
    Google is a wonderful thing. Just dug this up. Brings back memories...

    On the first play of the Jets game, Curtis Dickey fumbled a handoff. The Jets recovered and kicked a field goal. On the next possession, Bert Jones scrambled on third-and-long and was tackled for a loss. He slammed the ball to the turf and shouted at his running back as they left the field. Dickey didn't play another down the rest of the game.

    Jones told the press what he told Dickey: "Don't just stand there when I'm scrambling around. Go out, come back to me, block somebody, do something. Make a play." Jones also told reporters that Dickey had fallen asleep at some team meetings. When reporters confronted McCormack about Jones' allegations, the coach became livid. "Anything that comes out of a meeting is bad," McCormack said; the AP report of his news conference states that his hands were shaking as he spoke. "What goes on in this meeting room stays in this room."

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/wal...ory-1981-colts

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...pg=4457,921347





  10. #34
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    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy_Carcetti View Post
    Jones may have been a more impressive pure QB, but he ain't got no rings. Joe does.

    That's because Joe didn't play for Irsay's bad teams. Joe didn't turn
    a 2-14 team around to a division championship. Joe's never had the bad
    defenses that Bert did. Like BF said,Bert willed those teams into the POs. ][/I]





    No offense to the guy, but not a whole lot of people outside old Colts fans will remember much about Bert Jones. Sadly, much of it can be attributed to Irsay, who was dismantling the team during the height of Jones' career.

    But people remember championships and great moments, and Joe has that while Bert doesn't.

    So, yes, Joe Flacco will be considered the second greatest quarterback in Baltimore football history. Which is sort of like arguing who is the second greatest manager in Baltimore Orioles history.
    Good points and we said Bert had his faults throwing the ball like throwing too hard
    with Ray Chester dropping so many but that last play in NE would have been easy
    for Bert when Torrey breezed by his man,I'm telling ya.

    Joe's a great QB with the SB MVP and Bert has a regular season MVP but unlike the
    young guys, I've seen them both play in person and I'd bet Bellicheat would still
    say Bert had the strongest arm he ever saw if asked now.








  11. #35
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    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    Comparing Jones to Flacco reminds me like the modern day Joe vs. Matty Icy from a performance level. (Not comparing physical tools at all)

    Bert played in the AFC East where two of the teams had horrible defenses (Buffalo & Jets) and the other two were ok (Dolphins & Patriots). Sorta like Ryan where he had an opportunity to pad his stats in those 8 divisional games. When Jones went up against a good D like Dallas in 1976, he had came back down to earth. And in the playoffs when Jones had to go against the those tough Steelers D, he stunk. And he stunk in the Raiders 77 game. Regular season champ... Postseason chump.... Reminds me of Matty Ice.

    And gimme a break, Air Flacco. That Jones misfire to a completely wide open Raymond Chester in the 77 Raiders game was Andy Dalton-like. Joe's pass in the NE game was not in the same ballpark as that horrible throw. All he had to do was loft the pass a little but Jones choked. The Colts had 22 yds passing thru 3Qs in the Raiders game. Can you imagine Joe having 22 yds passing thru 3 quarters in a playoff game? Watch the game again and see how many dropped INTs the Raiders D had. You said that Bert would have hit Torrey in NE. He might have had but the score in the game would have been 35 - 17 Patriots if Jones has QBing that game, so the point is moot.

    This is what pisses me off about old Colts fans... Jones is totally underrated in the annals of old QBs, but he is somewhat overrated in terms of how old Colts fans view him. I hate crapping on Jones b/c I really liked him... he was my favorite Colt growing up.. but you cannot overlook his playoff performance. That's why I think its crazy to say Jones is better than Joe. If you want a regular season champ over a postseason champ be my guess. I'll take Joe.
    Bert led the Colts to 31 pts in the PO game mentioned above but the defense gave
    up 37 points. The Squeelers also killed that defense in the POs. Those losses aren't
    on Bert. This is what the young guys dont know or remember - how bad those
    teams were even in the POs while Ravens always win at least 1 PO game almost
    every year and because of January Joe.





  12. #36
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    Re: For us young guys: compare Bert Jones to Joe Flacco

    This is when the plane crashed into Memorial Stadium after the PO
    loss to the Squeelers and the defense gave up 40 points.

    So in two PO games posted, Colts defense gave up 77 points.
    When did the Ravens do that for Joe in the POs?



    http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertai...425-photo.html
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-09-2015 at 01:31 PM.





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