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  1. #46

    Re: Mark Clayton EXISTS!!!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    I was at the game, section 531, good to be back in baltimore for a bit. Randomly, I was also selected as Fox 45's fan of the week in their Purple Pride contest.


    From what I saw of the offense:

    1) we took a good ammount of effective end zone shots, but Demetrius dropped 1, one got called back by a ticky-tacky offensive Pass Interference call.

    2) Mark Clayton EXISTS!!!!! 4 catches. Good to see Boller looking his way, and again Boller suddenly finding him makes me think "why can't McNair find him?" I think its a vision issue

    3) Boller is better on the intermediate Balls. The deep balls, i can't tell form yesterday as the o-line showed its youth. Demetrius has to get better at coming down with the ball and securing it.

    4) YAC wise, I think it takes a blind man to not see that our YAC is far better with Boller throwing the ball. The ball gets their faster while the corner is froze, and the WR can then make the move. That one catch and run by mason comes to mind. If McNair throws that ball, the DB is all over Mason by the time the ball gets there.



    Overall, the offense is a shorter passing offense, but not as short as McNair makes it. He definitely has been checking down / checking out of the deep play called. Boller was getting killed by bad pass protection so we'll see what happens against buffalo.


    I really hope that McNair comes back from his rest well healed and looking better if he's to be the starter. If not, I hope we stick with Boller.


    We'll see if Boller's road woes continue. And I partially think finding this out is important to this team. Does he melt down, or play tough?
    Gee, what do you know.

    Excuses made for Boller.

    Oline, WRs dropping balls etc....

    Now McNair has "vision" issues?

    You can't tell from yesterday about the deep balls? I'll tell you Dave. Almost every one of them was underthrown including the ball that we got the PI call on. One down the sideline to Williams was WAY out of bounds.

    Look Dave, you can spin it however you want. The offense was given the ball countless times with GREAT field position and we saw basically the same thing.

    Did Boller throw a few balls in your favorite "intermediate" area? Sure. He also threw a pick and fumbled the ball.

    I noticed you glossed over that. Any chance you would've glossed over that fact if McNair had done that?

    Can you please start posting with some objectivity?

    PP

    P.S. I have 2 seats in 531. Thank God I don't sit there.
    Last edited by purplepoe; 10-16-2007 at 05:26 PM.




  2. #47

    Re: So How Did the Offense Look Today?

    I personally find this debate kind of comical.

    Really they are shades of mediocrity. At worst each is bad, and at best each is pretty good. They both fluctuate in that range. In terms of production, neither one is that much better then the other, though they obviously have different strengths and weaknesses.

    The FO has not found/invested in an elite quarterback. Never have since Vinny, unless you count Grbac.

    In the real world, by the way, that's not Billick's fault, but also in the real world, this is a pretty successful franchise.

    Cheers!
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  3. #48

    Re: So How Did the Offense Look Today?

    I'll agree with Dave that Boller leads to more YAC just because he has the arm strength to get the ball there quickly. Sunday was not a day to try throwing the ball deep regardless of which QB was in there. You throw the deep pass on 5 to 7 step drops and I'll be darned if I'd be trying that with undrafted rookie tackles.

    Hmmm... I'm seeing some intresting stats. We're averaging 19.8 first downs a game which is good for 10th in the league. We're converting 42% of our third downs, good for 15th in the league.

    Yet we're scoring 18.3 points a game which puts us at 22nd in the league. Our redzone woes continue to haunt us even after we let go of the tap-dancing bear. With a TE like Todd Heap, and a tall receiver like D-Will we shouldn't be having that much trouble.

    I think the forumla is really starting to bite us in the butt. We get down there and play it really safe and get the three points instead of going for the TD.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
    ProFootballMock




  4. #49
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    Re: Mark Clayton EXISTS!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Gee, what do you know.

    Excuses made for Boller.

    Oline,
    pp, I just want to ask, at what point is the OLine play so bad that is becomes a valid reason rather than an excuse?

    Because for several games that McNair has started I've heard the Haters claim McNair played poorly because of bad OLine play. Those are also the games where they kept the DLine off McNair and zero sacks were recorded.

    Boller plays last week and we actually have practice squad players trying to block real NFL players. I think the line had 3 rookies, two 2 year men and a practice squad guy. This results in Boller literally having his own lineman just pushed into him as he's trying to throw.

    The game announcers, local media, players and coaches all comment during and after the game about how badly the OLine play was.

    So when are we allowed to use this as a reason for a poor pass?




  5. #50

    Re: Mark Clayton EXISTS!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FHRaven View Post
    pp, I just want to ask, at what point is the OLine play so bad that is becomes a valid reason rather than an excuse?

    Because for several games that McNair has started I've heard the Haters claim McNair played poorly because of bad OLine play. Those are also the games where they kept the DLine off McNair and zero sacks were recorded.

    Boller plays last week and we actually have practice squad players trying to block real NFL players. I think the line had 3 rookies, two 2 year men and a practice squad guy. This results in Boller literally having his own lineman just pushed into him as he's trying to throw.

    The game announcers, local media, players and coaches all comment during and after the game about how badly the OLine play was.

    So when are we allowed to use this as a reason for a poor pass?
    McNair played with the same line for alot of the Niners game and they were thrown in there cold without a week's worth of practice.

    I dunno where you are reading about people saying the Oline playing bad as an excuse for McNair's poor performance this season. Certainly not from me.

    McNair has played like crap, period. No excuses here.

    And that's my whole point. Call a spade a spade. When a guy doesn't play well, I acknowledge it. Sure, I take into account different things etc....

    However, some people who have agendas refuse to lay blame at the feet of the QB and make excuses that somehow aren't allowed to be used for other QBs.

    Just look at the post I was responding to. Not one mention of the fumble or the INT. Do you honestly think that if McNair turned the ball over twice, no matter what the Oline situation was, that said poster would gloss over it?

    I think the answer to that is obvious.

    PP




  6. #51

    Re: So How Did the Offense Look Today?

    You guys are almost looking for a reason to argue -- I think we all agree the OL played badly last week, so what are you arguing about? Past posts about QBs? Let's let that go and stay in the present.

    (Wow, that sounds a little condescending, doesn't it? Sorry, just don't want the thread to descend into one of those YBR-style threads where we end up restarting arguments that started in other threads months or years earlier).




  7. #52

    Re: So How Did the Offense Look Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by highwater View Post
    You guys are almost looking for a reason to argue -- I think we all agree the OL played badly last week, so what are you arguing about? Past posts about QBs? Let's let that go and stay in the present.

    (Wow, that sounds a little condescending, doesn't it? Sorry, just don't want the thread to descend into one of those YBR-style threads where we end up restarting arguments that started in other threads months or years earlier).
    It's just amazing to me that the 2 turnovers get ignored because Boller was the QB.

    I think most people on the same page in believing that Boller should be the guy now because McNair isn't 100%.

    A few people (on both sides) just refuse to see the reality of the situation.

    PP




  8. #53

    Re: So How Did the Offense Look Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    It's just amazing to me that the 2 turnovers get ignored because Boller was the QB.

    I think most people on the same page in believing that Boller should be the guy now because McNair isn't 100%.

    A few people (on both sides) just refuse to see the reality of the situation.

    PP

    2 Turnovers isn't getting ignored. I think the issue is that in 2 games Boller has led the team to almost as many pts as mcnair has in 4. That says something about McNair's health. Also, I think his armstrength.


    On the catch and runs the YAC was bigger because the ball gets there faster. Anyone can see that. Our biggest fear with Boller in the short/intermediate passing game is that he makes the unforced big mistake. yet he hasn't done that for some time. His one INT was that Kracalick is a human turnstile.


    McNair has these 8 to 12 minute drives that lead to a field goal. Boller's drives have also been leading to field goals, but seem to have more quick strike capability, verticle shots, and ball actually thrown into the endzone. McNair throws short of the end zone for a gain of 4.


    Maybe McNair is hurt, and if so, I hope the rest gets him fresh. But I also believe that if Boller plays well on the road against the Bills, that when McNair comes back he'll be on a tighter leash than people think.


    I dont think the decision to start Boller these 2 games was due to a bad back, or anything like that. I think upper management talked to Steve, said "we think your dinged up and thats affecting you" and are giving him this time to recoup. If he looks the same or worse even after the "rest" then you have an interesting situation to deal with if you're Newsome/Bisciotti




  9. #54

    Re: So How Did the Offense Look Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    2 Turnovers isn't getting ignored.
    His one INT was that Kracalick is a human turnstile.
    O Please. If turnovers aren't getting ignored then why didn't you mention them in your analysis of Boller's game? And of course, it was someone else's fault. Im sure McNair would've been afforded that same excuse from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    McNair has these 8 to 12 minute drives that lead to a field goal. Boller's drives have also been leading to field goals, but seem to have more quick strike capability, verticle shots, and ball actually thrown into the endzone. McNair throws short of the end zone for a gain of 4.
    Well you don't say. What do you think many of us have been saying? So Boller leads us to FGs quicker. Great.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    I dont think the decision to start Boller these 2 games was due to a bad back, or anything like that. I think upper management talked to Steve, said "we think your dinged up and thats affecting you" and are giving him this time to recoup. If he looks the same or worse even after the "rest" then you have an interesting situation to deal with if you're Newsome/Bisciotti
    So let me get this straight. In consecutive sentences you say that you don't think the decision to sit McNair was due to injury BUT that you think management told Steve they were sitting him down because he was dinged up and it was affecting his play. Of course, that would mean his injury is affecting his play and that he's been given these almost 4 weeks off to recoup. Talk about contradicting yourself.

    Look Dave, this offense gives us pretty much the same results with either QB. The only difference is you freak out on McNair and bash everything you can but on the other hand somehow find any little positive with Boller while ignoring turnovers.

    That's not an opinion of mine. It's a fact.

    PP




  10. #55

    Re: So How Did the Offense Look Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Well you don't say. What do you think many of us have been saying? So Boller leads us to FGs quicker. Great.



    So let me get this straight. In consecutive sentences you say that you don't think the decision to sit McNair was due to injury BUT that you think management told Steve they were sitting him down because he was dinged up and it was affecting his play. Of course, that would mean his injury is affecting his play and that he's been given these almost 4 weeks off to recoup. Talk about contradicting yourself.


    That's not an opinion of mine. It's a fact.

    PP

    Hey, we'll see. Thats all I can say. We've had a difference of opinion on this entire subject for some time, and thats fine by me. You just act like I'm crazy when I have the dissenting opinion.


    I dont think the decision to sit McNair was purely injury, nor do I think they'd be doing this if they hadn't signed Kyle to that 1 year extension.


    I think they way they're framing this is the injury to his "back" which to me is just a way to stay internally consistent about the groin. Billick was reping the company line that "the groin was fine" and since then the company position is changing. But I think rather than to say "he tweaked it again" we're saying "bad back and he's taking time off"


    Shit, its likely with Boller than we melt down on the road, by his history. And if that happens, then this will all be a distant memory.


    But looking at the trends, and not just history, if he put together anything reasonable against the bills, at least more than the 9 points against th 9ers on the road, maybe throw a TD or two in there, I believe the leash won't be long for McNair to get back to "Air McNair"


    and again, I know you'll disagree. The beauty of sports, and the beauty of the USA is dissenting opinions. Glad no-one is coming to kill me for having a different opinion.




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