OT - American Sniper

[blah3]

It's pro bowl week so I decided to go wayyy off topic. If this gets deleted oh well.

Just watched American Sniper, thought it was fantastic but it's garnering a lot of negative attention in Canada saying it's too patriotic and reinforces this whole "islamophobia" phenomenon. I disagree, thought it was a fantastic showing of not only war but the residual effects of war. Curious what you guys thought as Americans. War is experienced different down there than in Canada so I'm honestly curious.

It's not just in Canada. There is plenty of criticism from 'Hollywood', which I find ironic because 'Hollywood' made the movie.

Anyway here is part of piece from Rolling Stone that I think captures some of the criticism.

Sniper is a movie whose politics are so ludicrous and idiotic that under normal circumstances it would be beneath criticism. The only thing that forces us to take it seriously is the extraordinary fact that an almost exactly similar worldview consumed the walnut-sized mind of the president who got us into the war in question.

It's the fact that the movie is popular, and actually makes sense to so many people, that's the problem.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...0150121?page=2

[JAB1985]

Thought the movie was decent. Felt a lot like every other military flick. For me the pinnacle in that genre is Band of Brothers.

As far as the book...haven't read it, but apparently a lot of things in the book were flat out lies.

http://anonhq.com/real-american-snip...le-wasnt-hero/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/kyleclaims.asp

The real life American Sniper also told a tale about him and a comrade being ordered to New Orleans in the direct aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The story goes that the two were stationed atop the Superdome. Kyle then proceeded to pick off and kill 30 looters dead in the streets from atop the home of the New Orleans Saints. There is absolutely no evidence to corroborate this narrative either.

Either Chris Kyle was a cold-blooded killer who took it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner while killing Americans dead in its streets or he was a liar. Whichever story you choose to believe, one thing is for certain, the real American Sniper was no hero.

I cant call a guy that shot 30 american citizens a hero, if he was lying about doing so on top of that, its somehow more disturbing. I think the dude had a lot of demons.

[HoustonRaven]

http://anonhq.com/real-american-snip...le-wasnt-hero/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/kyleclaims.asp


I cant call a guy that shot 30 american citizens a hero, if he was lying about doing so on top of that, its somehow more disturbing. I think the dude had a lot of demons.

I've read the book and he didn't make any such claim in his book about being a sniper during Katrina. Do you haver any idea where Snopes found that? Its difficult to tell since they've mashed together internet rumor, Twitter gossip and book analysis in the same piece. It's hard to tell which is which.

[AirFlacco]

JAB:


Of course you do. That's a typical Micheal Moore, libbie response. Did you ever
serve your country in any way whatsoever? If you had you'd understand. Dade
and others in here have served and should be praised.

I was one of the only guys in my SR class drafted during Nam. My entire SR
class marched up to the 5th Regiment Armory to join the guard to beat the draft.
I went in and wanted to go over. My dad served as a gunner on a B-17 bomber
and was injured. His plane went down while he was in the hospital. It Never
WENT down when he was killing Nazi fighter planes.

I wanted to be a Ranger but broke my leg and was injured in the hospital too
and never went over but I was trained to kill a lot of commies but ended up in
supplies at APG, MD. I can still show you the deformed ankle.

Nobody was sent to Iraq until after 911 where all their terror training camps
were destroyed. The military did in 6 months what the
entire Russian army couldn't do in 10 years in Afghanistan. One of our units at APG
went over to Iraq to sweep their Nuclear Center for radiation. There was none
but Sodom had a center. An Israeli jet destroyed a nuclear reactor years before.
You can google the story.

I went over with a sister unit at APG that tested the drinking
water in Bagdad before the troops arrived. TAML needed my agency reports
to complete their stuidies. I had just automated thousands of reports from
earlier studies and surveys from there and I was
the only one who could call them up on the computer immediately as there were
bugs in the system. My mother thought I was in OC, MD for 1 week. The
Iraqis never knew we were in the neighborhood. Thiry years later I finally made
the combat zone.


As for Katrina, I guess you never heard of all the women that were raped by
those looters and others inside the Super Dome. It was a blood bath.

[HoustonRaven]

Still can't find anything substantive where Kyle is on record saying he was a sniper during Katrina.

Until that surfaces, my opinion of him won't change. I don't think by any stretch he was a saint. I have not seen the movie yet, but if it's like the book, they go into detail about how he's a tortured soul from the war via PTSD.

[HoustonRaven]

Sorry Trapper, but those rapes and other nonsense you claim that happened in the Superdome, didn't.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mob...asters/2315076

[AirFlacco]

According to this they did. Here's a pic with the masses lining up to
leave the dome in masses. Nothing but chaos with babies being passed to the
front of the lines and separated from their mothers and the place stunk with
loads of shit and urine.

The California Disaster Medical Assistance Team spent 24 hellish hours inside the Superdome. Team members said they delivered babies, treated gunshot and stab victims, and ultimately fled for their own safety. Commander Dave Lipin says they saw two women who said they'd been raped — different women than those the police attended to. He says his team only saw a fraction of the desperate people who sought assistance.




And this from a 13-yr veteran police officer who was inside.

One 13-year veteran of the New Orleans police force said he and other officers who had been at the Superdome since Sunday were outraged at what they saw as a lack of preparation that allowed the situation in the covered stadium to deteriorate so badly and so quickly.

"This city knew something like this would happen a long time ago. They did nothing to prepare for this. They just rolled the dice and hoped for the best," said the officer who asked not to be identified.

"People were raped in there. People were killed in there. We had multiple riots," he said, adding there was no way to police the mass of up to 20,000 people suddenly thrown together in such a confined space and such horrific conditions.

And, pics don't lie. Here's some of that other nonsense inside the Dome. You wouldn't
want to be there.


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0902-06.htm






Somebody in NO tried to dupe people that these
things didn't happen and succeeded with some people.

BTW, I like the nick name Trapper.







http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5063796s

[Dade]

Still can't find anything substantive where Kyle is on record saying he was a sniper during Katrina.

Until that surfaces, my opinion of him won't change. I don't think by any stretch he was a saint. I have not seen the movie yet, but if it's like the book, they go into detail about how he's a tortured soul from the war via PTSD.

I think the Katrina story comes from an interview he did with the New Yorker.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...the-crosshairs

In the book he claimed to beat up Jesse Ventura. Jesse sued and won.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...rican-history/

[HoustonRaven]

I think the Katrina story comes from an interview he did with the New Yorker.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...the-crosshairs

In the book he claimed to beat up Jesse Ventura. Jesse sued and won.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...rican-history/

I saw that New Yorker piece. He's not giving an interview in that portion. It's a third hand account, passed along to the New Yorker by someone else.

I'm looking for Kyle quotes.

[JAB1985]

I've read the book and he didn't make any such claim in his book about being a sniper during Katrina. Do you haver any idea where Snopes found that? Its difficult to tell since they've mashed together internet rumor, Twitter gossip and book analysis in the same piece. It's hard to tell which is which.

Good question. My friends part way through it and im waiting til hes done to borrow it. Im not sure where theyre getting their information, as its says multiple sources and articles but it appears it goes back to fellow Seal Sniper, Brandon Webb who attributes Kyle and some other snipers collectively taking out 30 civilians by his own admission, posthumously. Very well could be Webb being the liar in this instance. The way Ive read that, it sounded like it was in his biography, which does change things. I know theres some other lies in that book, or at least highly questioned acts, some of which have been retracted from later publishings.

I originally read the anonymous article and posted the snopes as i found it while searching for it. the anonymous article seems to go back to that NY piece as well, via washington post.

http://www.nola.com/entertainment/in...preposter.html

[AirFlacco]

Good question. My friends part way through it and im waiting til hes done to borrow it. Im not sure where theyre getting their information, as its says multiple sources and articles but it appears it goes back to fellow Seal Sniper, Brandon Webb who attributes Kyle and some other snipers collectively taking out 30 civilians by his own admission, posthumously. Very well could be Webb being the liar in this instance. The way Ive read that, it sounded like it was in his biography, which does change things. I know theres some other lies in that book, or at least highly questioned acts, some of which have been retracted from later publishings.

I originally read the anonymous article and posted the snopes as i found it while searching for it. the anonymous article seems to go back to that NY piece as well, via washington post.

http://www.nola.com/entertainment/in...preposter.html

At least he retracted it.

O'Reilley hasn't retracted over 100 erors in his book on Lincoln. I don't
think he has. Fords Theater in DC where he was shot won't even sell
it in their book store.

[HoustonRaven]

Good question. My friends part way through it and im waiting til hes done to borrow it. Im not sure where theyre getting their information, as its says multiple sources and articles but it appears it goes back to fellow Seal Sniper, Brandon Webb who attributes Kyle and some other snipers collectively taking out 30 civilians by his own admission, posthumously. Very well could be Webb being the liar in this instance. The way Ive read that, it sounded like it was in his biography, which does change things. I know theres some other lies in that book, or at least highly questioned acts, some of which have been retracted from later publishings.

I originally read the anonymous article and posted the snopes as i found it while searching for it. the anonymous article seems to go back to that NY piece as well, via washington post.

http://www.nola.com/entertainment/in...preposter.html

That's what I'm finding too. Everything goes back to the New Yorker piece.

But I'm not going to call him a liar (not yet anyway). Just like I wouldn't call Marcus Luttrell a liar. The "fog of war" is a very real thing and if it creates something to be inaccurate from their recollection, I'm not going to begrudge that.

His a hero of circumstance, not because he's a good guy, righteous or otherwise seeking to be the hero. His actions on the battlefield alone have my respect since it most certainly saved hundreds, maybe thousands, of lives. He paid the ultimate price, both alive with his PTSD and in death, being able to survive multiple tours of duty, only to be shot down by a fellow service member who he sought to help.