Situation in Ferguson

**wickedsolo** · 08-15-2014, 11:35 AM

Trust me, I get where you're coming from.

And again, I'm not trying to insinuate that the witnesses are making shit up. However, it is well known that eyewitness testimony is often inaccurate.

I was just surprised that in today's modern and connected world there was no video of the incident. Either from a witness, bystander, the cop's car, or even POV cameras which a lot of municipalities and states are requiring police officers to wear.

**JohnBKistler** · 08-15-2014, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Some of the photos I've seen of the Ferguson PD, and their gear, is insane.

Domestic LE has no need for that hardware. This is yet another by-product of the so-called war on drugs.

The war on drugs plus the DOD program to provide grants (usually in the form of decommissioned military hardware) to local police departments. I believe a congressman in GA is putting through legislation to end that program.

To paraphrase Bunny Colvin from The Wire, if you treat it like a war both sides will make it a war.

Police and their interactions with protesters goes way back in this country...it would be a mistake to assume that all police departments use the same tactics as Ferguson. This article provides info on some different ways of "preserving order and protecting rights of speech and assembly" that if employed in Ferguson may have had a dramatic difference.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...d-to-protests/

Not withstanding the police departments mentioned in the linked article, I do think police in general have become more militarized with war-like gear and attitudes. And what's the old saying? "When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." (or something like that)

**JohnBKistler** · 08-15-2014, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I was just surprised that in today's modern and connected world there was no video of the incident. Either from a witness, bystander, the cop's car, or even POV cameras which a lot of municipalities and states are requiring police officers to wear.

I don't know if it is "a lot" of departments which are starting to use the body cameras, but some are piloting them (including Baltimore). And I think this is one area where technology could make a huge difference.

Not only would it take the "he-said / she-said" out of controversial encounters, and provide much more indisputable evidence in these situations, in general, when police are wearing these cameras, and they know they are being recorded and the public knows they are being recorded, people act more civilized to one and another and maybe the situation never even escalates.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/07/co...-video-cameras

**JohnBKistler** · 08-15-2014, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dade

I agree with you. Every criticism you made of Sharpton and Jackson are valid. I just think some people see Sharpton and Jackson's involvement and immediately think "blacks are making it about race again." Almost trivializing the whole thing. For example; Republicans have a valid political issue...but then Sarah Palin weighs in saying something stupid...my reaction wouldn't be, "because of Palin's involvement, the Republicans concern is meaningless."

You make a very strong point and the comparison is valid. I know that when I heard that Sharpton was "flying to Ferguson", I rolled my eyes and said "he we go again." But I actually listened to his first statements he made when he got there and I thought they were very measured and on point (I was actually a little surprised at myself).

I haven't heard any other statements from him or Jackson, so I can only comment on the one I heard.

**AirFlacco** · 08-15-2014, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by darb72

We've gone over this. Obama is at his best not doing a damned thing. Literally everything he touches turns to utter shit in a matter of days, so it's in out best interest to let him play golf and run his mouth for reporters.

Great line.

**AirFlacco** · 08-15-2014, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by lovefootball

Police all over America have to be wondering what's next. Sad to read about and harder to envision a young man being killed while not resisting. The protesting is straight out wrong with vandalizing the area. The facts of the shooting is typical " he said, she said," with the police having their own account. Crazy to think that this happens every so often in the USA and elsewhere. For the PD to be relieved of control does not bode well for the report the police are giving. Have to wonder how the town responds in the future to any police activities. Probably be distrust in that area for a long time when it comes to the police dept.

Like someone said, it's Watts in middle America.

**darb72** · 08-15-2014, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by lovefootball

Police all over America have to be wondering what's next. Sad to read about and harder to envision a young man being killed while not resisting. The protesting is straight out wrong with vandalizing the area. The facts of the shooting is typical " he said, she said," with the police having their own account. Crazy to think that this happens every so often in the USA and elsewhere. For the PD to be relieved of control does not bode well for the report the police are giving. Have to wonder how the town responds in the future to any police activities. Probably be distrust in that area for a long time when it comes to the police dept.

Want to rethink your stance after evidence comes out that Brown was a vicious criminal? http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mic...-brown-n181326

**HoustonRaven** · 08-15-2014, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by darb72

Want to rethink your stance after evidence comes out that Brown was a vicious criminal? http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mic...-brown-n181326

How does that change anything?

Committing a strong armed robbery isn't justification to shoot someone who is walking away and has his hands up 20 minuets AFTER the robbery was committed.

Now if that shooting took place in the car during that struggle, I'd say its 100% justified the officer shoot someone. It's a confined space, little room to move, etc if someone goes for your gun.

BTW, Ted Bundy was a vicious criminal. This kid roughed up a store clerk trying to steal a pack of cigars. Hardly worthy of the moniker of "vicious"

**OhThePossibilities** · 08-15-2014, 06:29 PM

Post deleted because I should know better than to get involved in this discussion.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 08-15-2014, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

How does that change anything?

Committing a strong armed robbery isn't justification to shoot someone who is walking away and has his hands up 20 minuets AFTER the robbery was committed.

Now if that shooting took place in the car during that struggle, I'd say its 100% justified the officer shoot someone. It's a confined space, little room to move, etc if someone goes for your gun.

BTW, Ted Bundy was a vicious criminal. This kid roughed up a store clerk trying to steal a pack of cigars. Hardly worthy of the moniker of "vicious"

It doesn't.

Like you, I have no idea how stealing a pack of $3 cigars makes someone a "viscous criminal".

They really need to push for and use those cameras on the cops person as well as dashboard of their cars. It would help get to the truths of these issues.

Personally, I'm not saying for a fact the police story is incorrect, but I have a really hard time believing that a person who doesn't appear mentally unstable and have a pure death wish would reach for a cops gun...that's pure suicide...either by the cop, one of his buddies or a LONG time in jail.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

**jonboy79** · 08-15-2014, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

I don't know if it is "a lot" of departments which are starting to use the body cameras, but some are piloting them (including Baltimore). And I think this is one area where technology could make a huge difference.

Not only would it take the "he-said / she-said" out of controversial encounters, and provide much more indisputable evidence in these situations, in general, when police are wearing these cameras, and they know they are being recorded and the public knows they are being recorded, people act more civilized to one and another and maybe the situation never even escalates.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/07/co...-video-cameras

I'm late to the party.

Great post. I hope that soon ALL cops are required to wear body camera's at ALL times on duty.
For all the reasons you suggest, PLUS SOME.
IT would also stop them from hanging out for hours on end at Dunkin Donuts and 7/11's while on duty... from pulling over in a random parking lot to shoot the shit with their buddy, etc.

I'm white, and I don't trust the police any further then I can throw them, and I would get shot if I tried to throw them.

I just find the VAST majority of cops that I have come into contact with hypocrites with an attitude problem and an inferiority complex. Too many use the job as a platform to float from store to store picking up freebies while avoiding doing their jobs. They excessively speed and then pull people over for driving slower then them. Many gamble, and bust bookies... buy bootleg DVD's etc.

To me, if you are going to be a cop, don't break the law. I think that's simple, but simply not the norm.
When the majority of cops find laws to be ridiculous, we need to reconsider those laws(speed limits, marijuana, gambling, prostitution, etc).

oh, and, IMO, Sharpton and Jackson have done more to hurt Black Americans then help them by a GIGANTIC margin. Like someone above, when they get involved in a situation it makes me run the other way. I immediately brush it off as an excuse to grandstand the shit out of it, and totally ruins all chance of constructive conversation. IF I were a Black American, I would make it a point to do my share(whatever that might be) to take the microphone away from them. Their voice needs to be ignored completely in all situations, it just makes things worse when they are involved. Time for some new "blood".