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  1. #16

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE



    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    i think his point is maybe we go into the season with Chandler and Daniels for 1/3 the yearly investment and not lose anything production wise. Players history of production/ability certainly supports that theory.
    That's a good boil down...
    And we might lose a "little" but I think the value for dollar quotient was MUCH higher on Daniels and Chandler then Pitta, that is my ultimate point.
    Pitta received the premium contract because of the appearance of the "brightest future". I probably agree with that assessment, it's the DEGREES of separation where I differ.

    I'm saying he was the best option, but I'm also saying he wasn't the best option by the LEAPS AND BOUNDS that his contract was the richest.
    I'm also suggesting, that his open market value was closer to $20m, which is a complete WAG(wild ass guess).

    I simply don't agree that he is a player on the precipice of having a long distinguishing pro-bowl career after this point in time. He might get to Hawaii once or twice, perhaps... His contract, IMO, suggests a player with a longer/brighter future, IMO.




  2. #17
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Ravens drafted Gilmore, TE, whom Kubes requested and he had pretty good OTAs. I'd take him over Clark. Everyone here bitches if Pitta leaves and has a big year elsewhere. In fact, he was in demand last year as a restricted FA but no one was willing to give up the required #2 pick for him but plenty of guys here were concerned we might lose him.




  3. #18
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    To me it's not what Pitta would have gotten/done elsewhere, it is that he seems to be a perfect fit with Flacco.
    When Boldin left, that left Pitta as Joe's go-to guy, and we saw what happened when both were off the field.
    Was Pitta over-paid, YES IMO, but this is a contending team and we weren't going to let an important part walk... Bc




  4. #19

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I agree.

    Take the average of the top three TE salaries, the avg of the top 3 WR salaries and avg those together to get your TE tag.
    The more I think about though, the more I don't want the two positions merged (for tag purposes). I understand TEs are being used much differently, but they still aren't WRs. WRs don't get to line up opposite LBs and Safeties. The athletic pass catching TE is certainly on the rise and I think it will just take a bit for the salaries to catch up. Quite a few of these TEs are going to be signing big money contracts in the next few years. This will in turn raise the tag number significantly.




  5. #20

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Ravens drafted Gilmore, TE, whom Kubes requested and he had pretty good OTAs. I'd take him over Clark. Everyone here bitches if Pitta leaves and has a big year elsewhere. In fact, he was in demand last year as a restricted FA but no one was willing to give up the required #2 pick for him but plenty of guys here were concerned we might lose him.
    So he wasn't worth a 2nd rounder from anyone last year, and he goes out, has a MAJOR injury, gets a year older, and produces little on the field and is now worth an elite contract for his position? That's where I struggle.




  6. #21

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Money227 View Post
    The more I think about though, the more I don't want the two positions merged (for tag purposes). I understand TEs are being used much differently, but they still aren't WRs. WRs don't get to line up opposite LBs and Safeties. The athletic pass catching TE is certainly on the rise and I think it will just take a bit for the salaries to catch up. Quite a few of these TEs are going to be signing big money contracts in the next few years. This will in turn raise the tag number significantly.
    Agreed, the tag will catch up with the times, coincidentally after Graham signs...

    It's just a weird situation, where 2 players so egregiously outclass the rest of the league at their position....
    Anyone besides Graham and Gronk would be happy with the tag figure...




  7. #22

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    To me it's not what Pitta would have gotten/done elsewhere, it is that he seems to be a perfect fit with Flacco.
    When Boldin left, that left Pitta as Joe's go-to guy, and we saw what happened when both were off the field.
    Was Pitta over-paid, YES IMO, but this is a contending team and we weren't going to let an important part walk... Bc
    I understand and agree with this.
    Academically speaking, it was a quite obvious overpay to keep Flacco's best friend and favorite target in town.
    I understand why it was done, but I can still complain.




  8. #23
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    When Graham is covered by a CB, his numbers aren't nearly as impressive. If he is all world how was it he was limited to 1 catch against the Seahawks? He is a TE and deserves to be paid as a TE. Put him on the outside and corners and safeties will eat his lunch.




  9. #24
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I understand and agree with this.
    Academically speaking, it was a quite obvious overpay to keep Flacco's best friend and favorite target in town.
    I understand why it was done, but I can still complain.
    You not only have the right to complain, but I can easily see your POV too... Bc




  10. #25
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Money227 View Post
    The more I think about though, the more I don't want the two positions merged (for tag purposes). I understand TEs are being used much differently, but they still aren't WRs. WRs don't get to line up opposite LBs and Safeties. The athletic pass catching TE is certainly on the rise and I think it will just take a bit for the salaries to catch up. Quite a few of these TEs are going to be signing big money contracts in the next few years. This will in turn raise the tag number significantly.
    Receivers absolutely line up across from linebackers and safeties.

    Take the Cardinals for example. Their nickel defense includes dropping Tyrann Mathieu down to a nickel corner position and bringing in Rashad Johnson at free safety.

    Now, Mathieu is kind of a hybrid, but he is still a safety.

    We did the same thing here with Haruki Nakamura.
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  11. #26
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    When Graham is covered by a CB, his numbers aren't nearly as impressive. If he is all world how was it he was limited to 1 catch against the Seahawks? He is a TE and deserves to be paid as a TE. Put him on the outside and corners and safeties will eat his lunch.
    I agree to a certain extent, but the Seahawks doubled down on Jimmy Graham and left Marques Colston open for much of that game (as evident by his 11 receptions, 144 yards, and 1 TD).

    The Seahawks took the lesser of two evils and kept Graham out of that game completely.
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  12. #27

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I agree to a certain extent, but the Seahawks doubled down on Jimmy Graham and left Marques Colston open for much of that game (as evident by his 11 receptions, 144 yards, and 1 TD).

    The Seahawks took the lesser of two evils and kept Graham out of that game completely.
    That doesn't help Jimmy's case for being classified as a receiver at least not a top class one. If he was an elite WR, like he wants to be paid as a top WR he shouldn't be classified as "the lesser of two evils" by opposing defenses.




  13. #28

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticfury View Post
    That doesn't help Jimmy's case for being classified as a receiver at least not a top class one. If he was an elite WR, like he wants to be paid as a top WR he shouldn't be classified as "the lesser of two evils" by opposing defenses.
    I think he was insinuating that Colston was the lesser of two evils...




  14. #29
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticfury View Post
    That doesn't help Jimmy's case for being classified as a receiver at least not a top class one. If he was an elite WR, like he wants to be paid as a top WR he shouldn't be classified as "the lesser of two evils" by opposing defenses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I think he was insinuating that Colston was the lesser of two evils...
    Indeed.

    The Seahawks viewed Graham as a larger threat than they did Coltson, which is why they were ok with Colston doing what he did while they stuck to their gameplan of completely keeping Graham out of the game.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  15. #30
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    So he wasn't worth a 2nd rounder from anyone last year, and he goes out, has a MAJOR injury, gets a year older, and produces little on the field and is now worth an elite contract for his position? That's where I struggle.
    When has any team paid a #2 draft pick for a RFA? Not many, if any. Teams value their 2d round pick.

    Like BC just posted, he's worth the weight in gold as Joe's fav target. He's back. He's healthy and will put up the numbers, maybe not Jimmy Graham numbers but numbers that will justify his contract. The Ravens aren't complaining and neither are most of the fans. They want and need Pitta and even with this contract Ravens are about $4.1M under the CAP so what's the prob. They can roll that over to next year to pay for Jimmy and Torrey Smith. I think it's the most they've ever been under the CAP even with Pitta's contract. Ravens have done great with their CAP numbers this year.

    Let's re-visit this at the end of the year. Wait til you see him hitting the middle same time as Daniels getting those mis-matches on the LBs. Despite his numbers, take out Pitta's SB catch which was straight up the middle on a hard thrown ball and we lose.

    That's why the fans love him. He's a winner and has been injured only once for a lengthy period of time and we saw what happened to the team. This other TE you speak of won't bring the chemistry and timing and experience that Pitta does.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 07-02-2014 at 10:45 PM.




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