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  1. #13

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE



    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Daniels is in the twilight of his career. Pitta isn't even close to the end.

    To compare the two to make your point is an oversimplification and wholly out of context.
    I think Pitta is far closer to the twilight of his career then most Ravens fans would admit.

    You clearly decided not to quote this part so that your post made sense.

    "Many other TE's who were similarly productive signed FAR smaller deals. Perhaps none of them had quite the ratio of low miles and projected to improve in their 30's, but I always thought the idea that Pitta was still improving to be oversold on this board. "

    He's 2.5 years older then Pitta, with both coming off a major injury.

    CLEARLY Pitta had more value and long term prospects then Daniels during this offseason... but by a 32:1 factor? That is my point. (6.5:1, annually).
    I think most forget or never new that Pitta just turned 29 a couple days ago, he is EXTREMELY old for his rookie class. 29 years old and just over 1200 career receiving yards does not scream "Franchise TE" like his contract does, at least to me anyways. I understand that he was the "closest thing" to a FA franchise TE that was available this offseason, but IMO, that point is drastically overblown. I'm sure his best year IS ahead of him, but will likely start heading downhill as soon as he gets there. He will likely have a very abbreviated career peak, due to his late age starting in the NFL.




  2. #14
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I certainly understand Supply and Demand, and STILL feel that Pitta was GROSSLY overpaid. ]

    WE KNOW YOU STILL FEEL THIS WAY JON.


    So w/o the deal we go into the season with Daniels and Clark who just retired for good but wouldn't have had he remained on the team had Pitta signed elsewhere.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  3. #15

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    So w/o the deal we go into the season with Daniels and Clark who just retired for good but wouldn't have had he remained on the team had Pitta signed elsewhere.
    i think his point is maybe we go into the season with Chandler and Daniels for 1/3 the yearly investment and not lose anything production wise. Players history of production/ability certainly supports that theory. saying wed sign clark when there was 10+ more viable options on the market vs last year when nobody was left, isnt a good argument.

    Keep in mind Clark was scheduled to visit before we lost Pitta. we were looking for a 3rd TE and figured we could squeeze a little out of clark. He wasnt signed at that point to be a major contributor, he was the best of what was available that late.
    -JAB




  4. #16

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    i think his point is maybe we go into the season with Chandler and Daniels for 1/3 the yearly investment and not lose anything production wise. Players history of production/ability certainly supports that theory.
    That's a good boil down...
    And we might lose a "little" but I think the value for dollar quotient was MUCH higher on Daniels and Chandler then Pitta, that is my ultimate point.
    Pitta received the premium contract because of the appearance of the "brightest future". I probably agree with that assessment, it's the DEGREES of separation where I differ.

    I'm saying he was the best option, but I'm also saying he wasn't the best option by the LEAPS AND BOUNDS that his contract was the richest.
    I'm also suggesting, that his open market value was closer to $20m, which is a complete WAG(wild ass guess).

    I simply don't agree that he is a player on the precipice of having a long distinguishing pro-bowl career after this point in time. He might get to Hawaii once or twice, perhaps... His contract, IMO, suggests a player with a longer/brighter future, IMO.




  5. #17
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Ravens drafted Gilmore, TE, whom Kubes requested and he had pretty good OTAs. I'd take him over Clark. Everyone here bitches if Pitta leaves and has a big year elsewhere. In fact, he was in demand last year as a restricted FA but no one was willing to give up the required #2 pick for him but plenty of guys here were concerned we might lose him.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  6. #18
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    To me it's not what Pitta would have gotten/done elsewhere, it is that he seems to be a perfect fit with Flacco.
    When Boldin left, that left Pitta as Joe's go-to guy, and we saw what happened when both were off the field.
    Was Pitta over-paid, YES IMO, but this is a contending team and we weren't going to let an important part walk... Bc




  7. #19

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I agree.

    Take the average of the top three TE salaries, the avg of the top 3 WR salaries and avg those together to get your TE tag.
    The more I think about though, the more I don't want the two positions merged (for tag purposes). I understand TEs are being used much differently, but they still aren't WRs. WRs don't get to line up opposite LBs and Safeties. The athletic pass catching TE is certainly on the rise and I think it will just take a bit for the salaries to catch up. Quite a few of these TEs are going to be signing big money contracts in the next few years. This will in turn raise the tag number significantly.




  8. #20

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Ravens drafted Gilmore, TE, whom Kubes requested and he had pretty good OTAs. I'd take him over Clark. Everyone here bitches if Pitta leaves and has a big year elsewhere. In fact, he was in demand last year as a restricted FA but no one was willing to give up the required #2 pick for him but plenty of guys here were concerned we might lose him.
    So he wasn't worth a 2nd rounder from anyone last year, and he goes out, has a MAJOR injury, gets a year older, and produces little on the field and is now worth an elite contract for his position? That's where I struggle.




  9. #21

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by Money227 View Post
    The more I think about though, the more I don't want the two positions merged (for tag purposes). I understand TEs are being used much differently, but they still aren't WRs. WRs don't get to line up opposite LBs and Safeties. The athletic pass catching TE is certainly on the rise and I think it will just take a bit for the salaries to catch up. Quite a few of these TEs are going to be signing big money contracts in the next few years. This will in turn raise the tag number significantly.
    Agreed, the tag will catch up with the times, coincidentally after Graham signs...

    It's just a weird situation, where 2 players so egregiously outclass the rest of the league at their position....
    Anyone besides Graham and Gronk would be happy with the tag figure...




  10. #22

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    To me it's not what Pitta would have gotten/done elsewhere, it is that he seems to be a perfect fit with Flacco.
    When Boldin left, that left Pitta as Joe's go-to guy, and we saw what happened when both were off the field.
    Was Pitta over-paid, YES IMO, but this is a contending team and we weren't going to let an important part walk... Bc
    I understand and agree with this.
    Academically speaking, it was a quite obvious overpay to keep Flacco's best friend and favorite target in town.
    I understand why it was done, but I can still complain.




  11. #23

    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    When Graham is covered by a CB, his numbers aren't nearly as impressive. If he is all world how was it he was limited to 1 catch against the Seahawks? He is a TE and deserves to be paid as a TE. Put him on the outside and corners and safeties will eat his lunch.




  12. #24
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    Re: Jimmy Graham is officially a TE

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I understand and agree with this.
    Academically speaking, it was a quite obvious overpay to keep Flacco's best friend and favorite target in town.
    I understand why it was done, but I can still complain.
    You not only have the right to complain, but I can easily see your POV too... Bc




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