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  1. #91
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    Re: Is another US Civil War Possible?



    I saw a Texas bumper sticker the other day that said "secede" on it.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Is another US Civil War Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I saw a Texas bumper sticker the other day that said "secede" on it.
    I see them too. Though, there are two different versions. One has to do with actual secession and the other has to do with A&M defecting to the SEC. The later is by far the more popular of the two.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #93
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    Re: Is another US Civil War Possible?

    Greg has been posting since the original message boards, longer than anyone here and he posted on the original Ravens boards - Sunspot and Ravenstalk.com before forming his own board with Fanatic, Mista T,
    Bert and Paulie which is now Aaron's scout.com.

    Greg has always been noted as a constitutional authority along with 12th Raven over on scout who teaches.

    Greg is usually right on these things as he has been on this thread. Take it from someone who has gone
    head to head with him for over a decade.




  4. #94
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    Re: Is another US Civil War Possible?

    I don't know about being authority but I am really shocked that case law can be set on a battlefield.

    The ratifications of NY and VA as accepted trump anything else. That is what was ratified, it is what was agreed to.

    I guess if I sign a contract and then the other party decides to change it and beats the hell out of me then the contract is now settled to their view.

    By the way, I don't agree that case law settles a damn thing, another judge can always change "settled case law" which happens regularly. And no, case law is not settled on a battlefield. Beyond that, judges interpret law, they don't make it.




  5. #95
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    Re: Is another US Civil War Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    The ratifications of NY and VA as accepted trump anything else. That is what was ratified, it is what was agreed to.
    So was the Supremacy Clause.

    And I cannot find where NY and VA had a right to secede from the Union. What I am reading is that they reserved the right to form smaller states and had similar language along the lines of the 10th Amendment. Can you point me to something that shows they were allowed to leave? Because the way it's worded, its ambiguous at best and still doesn't trump the Supremacy Clause.

    Even if they had language about interstate secession, that all ended with Art IV, Sec III, Clause I, which states "New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress."

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    By the way, I don't agree that case law settles a damn thing, another judge can always change "settled case law" which happens regularly. And no, case law is not settled on a battlefield.
    Yes, case law is not settled on a battle field. It's settled after the battle is over, with Ex parte Milligan being the start of long list of case law settled after the Civil War. President Lincoln's evocation of the Habeus Corpus was also settled as unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Beyond that, judges interpret law, they don't make it.
    Ok, your perspective is coming into focus now. I agree that was the way SCOTUS was intended. However, for good or bad, right or wrong, Marbury v. Madison changed that and SCOTUS affirmed their position as a co-equal branch of our Government.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #96
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    Re: Is another US Civil War Possible?

    So was the Supremacy Clause.
    The Supremacy Clause is the provision in Article Six, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution that establishes the U.S. Constitution, federal statutes, and U.S. treaties as "the supreme law of the land"

    Please reference the place in the Constitution, statute or US treaty that denies secession. AAMOF, since the ratification was done with the ability to secede that would implicitly be part of the Constitution, which would override any statute or treaty.

    Even if they had language about interstate secession, that all ended with Art IV, Sec III, Clause I, which states "New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress."
    Have you read their ratifications and the legislature's passage? Beyond that, what Art IV, Sec III, Clause I involves secession? This was in the Constitution when ratified, so again it doesn't prevent secession.

    Yes, case law is not settled on a battle field. It's settled after the battle is over, with Ex parte Milligan being the start of long list of case law settled after the Civil War. President Lincoln's evocation of the Habeus Corpus was also settled as unconstitutional.
    None of which stated states could not secede.

    Ok, your perspective is coming into focus now. I agree that was the way SCOTUS was intended. However, for good or bad, right or wrong, Marbury v. Madison changed that and SCOTUS affirmed their position as a co-equal branch of our Government.
    I never claimed they were not co-equal, but they are not a legislative body with law making power, or at least should not be, especially since not elected.




  7. #97
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    Is another US Civil War Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    The Supremacy Clause is the provision in Article Six, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution that establishes the U.S. Constitution, federal statutes, and U.S. treaties as "the supreme law of the land"

    Please reference the place in the Constitution, statute or US treaty that denies secession. AAMOF, since the ratification was done with the ability to secede that would implicitly be part of the Constitution, which would override any statute or treaty.



    Have you read their ratifications and the legislature's passage? Beyond that, what Art IV, Sec III, Clause I involves secession? This was in the Constitution when ratified, so again it doesn't prevent secession.



    None of which stated states could not secede.

    I never claimed they were not co-equal, but they are not a legislative body with law making power, or at least should not be, especially since not elected.
    Your argument has turned circular and thus, fallacious. Once again, you're inaccurately assuming that the absence of language in the Constitution equals a right to secession. You can ask the same question over and over again if you feel the need. Doing so though does not make your point valid or factual.

    Case law is every bit as legally binding as a statute and I listed the relevant case law, the Federalist Paper to which you requested, etc. in this matter. It's on you that you keep ignoring it in favor of *just* written statute.

    In post #95, I spelled out the legal argument against your position. Many legal scholars agree with that assessment.

    I'm happy and confident to continue this debate should you offer up something new.
    Last edited by HoustonRaven; 06-30-2014 at 09:00 PM.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #98
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    Re: Is another US Civil War Possible?

    Getting back to Lincoln, Frederick Douglas would agree with me that Lincoln is not the racist that Darb painted. A critic in the beginning who thought he was racist, Douglas changed his mind when he was invited to the WH by Lincoln several times, one of the first blacks to go there and when Lincoln brought blacks into the Army.

    Booker T. Washington was the first black person invited to a WH dinner. He was invited by Teddy Roosevelt.

    http://www.buzzle.com/articles/presi...roosevelt.html


    http://www.mrlincolnswhitehouse.org/...38&subjectID=2




  9. #99
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    Re: Is another US Civil War Possible?

    Once again, you're inaccurately assuming that the absence of language in the Constitution equals a right to secession.
    For one, that is what the 10th amendment says. Second, it is not my total argument.

    Case law is every bit as legally binding as a statute and I listed the relevant case law,
    No, it is not, case law can be overturned by another judge and has on a number of occasions, many of which I am sure you are familiar with so I need not list them.

    Statutes are binding until the legislature repeals or modifies them. However, it requires new legislation to do so. Case law can be changed by simply changing venues or even judges in the same venue. No judge is bound by a previous judge's decision if he doesn't think it is the best interpretation of the law.




  10. #100
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    Re: Is another US Civil War Possible?

    So you have nothing new ....
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




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