Natural Talent or Hard Work: Which is more valuable?

[Money227]

Personally, I think a guy with great talent but only minimally adequate work ethic (Ogden, Moss, Ngata, Artie Donovan) is more likely to be a game changer than their hard working and smart but physically deficient counterparts like Wes Welker, Manning, Jarret Johnson, or Ricky Prohel.

Who is this "Ogden" you speak of, because it's certainly not Jonathan Ogden. "Minimally adequate work ethic" and putting him in the same category as Randy Moss? Have you freaking lost your mind???

[alien bird]

Seantrel Henderson says hello

The antithesis of what I described.

[jimjim5]

Thinking about how Jerry Rice's son (Jerry Rice Jr.) is trying out for the Ravens, it made me think about Rice's 20-year career in the NFL. He wasn't especially fast, nor was he especially imposing physically (6'2" 195-200lbs). Yet, he just outworked everyone. He was the "Ray Lewis" of receivers before Ray Lewis was who he was on the field. Now, I'm not saying that Rice (or Lewis) weren't talented players. They were first round picks and you don't get to that point without talent, but it made me stop and think about how we see so much talent come through the NFL and just completely drop off the face of the earth. In a lot of those circumstances, the guys relied far too much on talent alone and never put in the work required to take their natural talent and elevate their level of play to where it could have been. Guys like Rice and Lewis knew that their talent alone wouldn't get them to where they wanted to be.

I often wonder what coaches value more? Talent? Or, someone that is known to be a hard worker?

Talent - is always paramount. Ask any coach. That is how you win at the highest level in high school, college, and the pros. There are thousands of hard working football players. Many don't have the talent or measurables. -But ultimately you look for a talented, COACH-ABLE hard worker, right?

[saintmatthew]

The problem with this thread is that you assume a certain amount of talent to start with before going any further, which makes this question unfair. In reality, you NEED extreme talent, but you don't NEED an extreme work ethic. I'm sure that you could find millions of people off the street willing to work their tail off for millions of dollars, fame, and the chance to play a kid's game. But you won't find millions of people with the physical attributes necessary to not get killed at the NFL level. Does anybody on this thread sitting at their computers really believe that they could suit up for the Ravens if they just worked hard enough? If you do, then why haven't you?

Of course no amount of effort would get me on a football field. I think in this discussion, the baseline level of talent to make it on an NFL roster is presumed. From there you have the athletic freaks vs. the highly motivated ass busters. Ultimately, a happy medium is probably the most desirable.

[Trackmaster]

Of course no amount of effort would get me on a football field. I think in this discussion, the baseline level of talent to make it on an NFL roster is presumed. From there you have the athletic freaks vs. the highly motivated ass busters. Ultimately, a happy medium is probably the most desirable.

But that completely obscures the argument. Most people were saying a mix between the two or that hard work trumps talent. Without any qualifiers, you would have to assume talent wins over work ethic. If you're assuming NFL level talent, why not assume a certain work ethic for the question you're at it?

[ActualSpamBot]

Who is this "Ogden" you speak of, because it's certainly not Jonathan Ogden. "Minimally adequate work ethic" and putting him in the same category as Randy Moss? Have you freaking lost your mind???

Did you read the whole post? Ogden absolutely applies. He bragged about how little time he spent in the weight room and practiced with very little intensity. It didn't matter though because he was so physically dominate that he was still head and shoulders better than his peers.

Obviously there are guys who put in less work, but they're flameouts. JO's strategy was to do the smallest amount of work that would yield great play.


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[JAB1985]

Did you read the whole post? Ogden absolutely applies. He bragged about how little time he spent in the weight room and practiced with very little intensity. It didn't matter though because he was so physically dominate that he was still head and shoulders better than his peers.

Obviously there are guys who put in less work, but they're flameouts. JO's strategy was to do the smallest amount of work that would yield great play.


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Ngata i think is a little unjust. He has videos of his workouts online and i doubt anybody thats seen them would say the guy doesnt possess a work ethic. It was a knock coming out of college, but personally i feel its been found to be untrue. JO ive heard those same statements many times. saved his energy for game days.

[ActualSpamBot]

But that completely obscures the argument. Most people were saying a mix between the two or that hard work trumps talent. Without any qualifiers, you would have to assume talent wins over work ethic. If you're assuming NFL level talent, why not assume a certain work ethic for the question you're at it?

If we're presuming successful players than yes, there is a minimum talent bar to clear, but as guys like Rolando and Jarmarcus prove, there is also a minimum work bar to clear.

My argument is that the higher the talent, the lower the work bar can be and still get a great guy, and vice versa. Ultimately you need a mix but you can typically get more from a talented guy who does the minimum to be a success than you can from a minimally talented guy who works harder than anyone.

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[Money227]

Did you read the whole post? Ogden absolutely applies. He bragged about how little time he spent in the weight room and practiced with very little intensity. It didn't matter though because he was so physically dominate that he was still head and shoulders better than his peers.

Obviously there are guys who put in less work, but they're flameouts. JO's strategy was to do the smallest amount of work that would yield great play.


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Yep...everyone remembers good ole "lazy ass Ogden". Just think about how good he could have been if he took his career seriously.

[ActualSpamBot]

Yep...everyone remembers good ole "lazy ass Ogden". Just think about how good he could have been if he took his career seriously.

Go find a step ladder, climb up as high as you can and raise your arms. While you're up there, see if you can see my point passing over your head.

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[Money227]

Go find a step ladder, climb up as high as you can and raise your arms. While you're up there, see if you can see my point passing over your head.

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Go pound sand. Ogden had a fantastic work ethic. Anyone who thinks differently is clueless.

[JAB1985]

Go pound sand. Ogden had a fantastic work ethic. Anyone who thinks differently is clueless.

believe what you want, but i dont think theres a lot out there on Ogdens "fantastic" work ethic. Probably one of the most gifted players naturally there ever was. I dont doubt he worked technique, but theres plenty of stories over the years that he didnt work out as much as the other guys on the team. He didnt need to. He was just naturally big and strong.

I wish I had an article to quote, but im almost certain its come from radio interviews that im recalling. Problem with trying to rehash quotes from over 8 years ago.