Our Front Seven Next Year

[Brien Jackson]

Mind you, I am not saying he sucks. But I felt many of our past DCs would have done much better in 2012 with the talent he had.

Last year, too. Suggs, Dumervil, Ngata, Arthur Jones, Webb and Smith on the outside, Cory Graham in the slot. Upshaw, Ihedigbo, and Daryl Smith all had solid seasons as well. As I recall, everyone on here was psyched about how dominant the defense was going to be with the talent we had. And they weren't a top 10 defense. I would be interested to know: don't most people on this board think that Rex Ryan (as DC) could have had a top 5 defense with the talent the Ravens had last year? I certainly do. I felt that - in particular - the pass rush underachieved tremendously last year. Pees barely even tries to confuse the offensive line.

Again, I agree that we could do a lot worse than Pees. But even if the defensive talent is significantly upgraded this year, I don't see him running a dominant defense.

You're not putting together a dominant defense in this day in age when you only have two above average pass rushers.

[Terpsfan82]

I dont know about that. With Ryan, the last time our offense was this bad (2007) the defense finished in the bottom 10 in the league. The reason I mention this is because I think a decent portion of our defensive struggles this year (4th quarter D especially) was more due to the offense's inability to stay on the field, or win the field position battle. I dont expect our offense will be great next year, but I expect us to be back inside the top 20. With how I think our defense will perform, combined with our easy schedule, that should be good enough for a playoff berth.

I think to judge Pees accurately you also have to consider his defensive philosophy. For him, the most important stats arent yards per game, or even points per game. Its red zone percentage, and third down percentage. We were top 5 in both last year, so by those standards we did very well.

I understand why most fans would like to see a more exotic scheme, though. It can produce more big plays and is exciting to watch. Unfortunately, it can also lead to getting burnt more often if the offense calls the right play. I dont think its necessary to be exotic to have a great D. Just look at Seattle, they had one of the most simple schemes last year. I think we can have a top 5 D next year with a conservative scheme, if we can get our running game back. That would alter time of possession in our favor, and help prevent the 4th quarter disappointments we saw at times last year.

Do you not remember all of the injuries sustained that year?

[RavenScallywag]

I was going to start a new thread, but saw this and figured this would be a good spot for my questions...

So I need some help understanding where guys can/will play...I know we run a hybrid scheme, so it's not a true 3-4 all the time, but essentially we have 3 TRUE DL spots

Nose Tackle
DE/DT (4 down lineman looks)
DE

So, looking at our current linemen, here are my guesses for what guys are able to play...

Ngata - DE/DT, but would probably start at NT
Canty - DE/DT
Cody - NT
Tyson - DE/DT?
KLM - DE?
Brandon Williams - They seemed to put him at DE/DT, but he seems more like a NT to me
Jernigan - DE/DT? NT??
Urban - DE/DT?

Looking at the Ravens Depth Chart from last year, we had NT, DE, and DT, and Canty and Tyson were the "DE"s, with Jones and Williams the "DT"s, and Ngata and Cody the NT.

How do you see this line shaking out? Did I correctly guess the spots for the guys above? It would seem like the future beyond this year would be some collection of Brandon Williams, Brent Urban, and Timmy Jernigan, with Tyson and KLM rotating in?

[ERey]

Ozzie said before last year's draft that he wanted to get stronger up the middle on D. Two drafts later it appears he meant it.

Bottom line, Baltimore fans know more than any other fan base how a great D can keep you in every game and win it all for you. I like that Ozzie has not changes that strategy.

[bmorecareful]

I was going to start a new thread, but saw this and figured this would be a good spot for my questions...

So I need some help understanding where guys can/will play...I know we run a hybrid scheme, so it's not a true 3-4 all the time, but essentially we have 3 TRUE DL spots

Nose Tackle
DE/DT (4 down lineman looks)
DE

So, looking at our current linemen, here are my guesses for what guys are able to play...

Ngata - DE/DT, but would probably start at NT
Canty - DE/DT
Cody - NT
Tyson - DE/DT?
KLM - DE?
Brandon Williams - They seemed to put him at DE/DT, but he seems more like a NT to me
Jernigan - DE/DT? NT??
Urban - DE/DT?

Looking at the Ravens Depth Chart from last year, we had NT, DE, and DT, and Canty and Tyson were the "DE"s, with Jones and Williams the "DT"s, and Ngata and Cody the NT.

How do you see this line shaking out? Did I correctly guess the spots for the guys above? It would seem like the future beyond this year would be some collection of Brandon Williams, Brent Urban, and Timmy Jernigan, with Tyson and KLM rotating in?

Here's how I see it:

0/1-Tech NT: Haloti Ngata, Brandon Williams
3/5-tech DT/DE: Timmy Jernigan, DeAngelo Tyson
5-tech DE: Chris Canty, Kapron Lewis-Moore, Brent Urban
7-tech DE/ROLB: Terrell Suggs, Pernell McPhee, John Simon
9-tech SAM/LOLB: Elvis Dumervil, Courtney Upshaw

WILB/WILL: CJ Mosley, Josh Bynes
MIKE: Daryl Smith, Arthur Brown

The bolded guys are the (hopeful) long-term starters. On early downs, it's more of a 3-4 look with a NT, two 5-techs, and two stand-up guys, one at the 7 tech (just outside the LT) and one at 9 tech (just outside the TE). On nickel downs, it's more of a 4-3 look with the OLBs putting their hands in the dirt to become DEs and the interior guys both playing 2 or 3-tech DT.

All in all, in my opinion, this is a talented defense, but one that is following a very old-school formula--big run-stopping guys in the middle, and all the pass rush comes from the edges. I'm afraid of seeing more games like the 2nd PIT game last year where they schemed to chip our edge rushers and completely shut down the pass rush--0 sacks and virtually no pressure, because no one could penetrate from the interior.

[arnie_uk]

Here's how I see it:

0/1-Tech NT: Haloti Ngata, Brandon Williams
3/5-tech DT/DE: Timmy Jernigan, DeAngelo Tyson
5-tech DE: Chris Canty, Kapron Lewis-Moore, Brent Urban
7-tech DE/ROLB: Terrell Suggs, Pernell McPhee, John Simon
9-tech SAM/LOLB: Elvis Dumervil, Courtney Upshaw

WILB/WILL: CJ Mosley, Josh Bynes
MIKE: Daryl Smith, Arthur Brown

The bolded guys are the (hopeful) long-term starters. On early downs, it's more of a 3-4 look with a NT, two 5-techs, and two stand-up guys, one at the 7 tech (just outside the LT) and one at 9 tech (just outside the TE). On nickel downs, it's more of a 4-3 look with the OLBs putting their hands in the dirt to become DEs and the interior guys both playing 2 or 3-tech DT.

All in all, in my opinion, this is a talented defense, but one that is following a very old-school formula--big run-stopping guys in the middle, and all the pass rush comes from the edges. I'm afraid of seeing more games like the 2nd PIT game last year where they schemed to chip our edge rushers and completely shut down the pass rush--0 sacks and virtually no pressure, because no one could penetrate from the interior.

Said this somewhere else, but just once I'd like to see us draft someone that can get consistent interior pressure.

[s.r.genovese]

Said this somewhere else, but just once I'd like to see us draft someone that can get consistent interior pressure.

Me too, but so would every other NFL team. I think it's more a function of the fact that those types of guys (Suh, Gerald McCoy) are so valuable that they go high in the draft. We rarely pick high.

It'd be nice if we could land one of those Geno Atkins sleeper types one year though.

[Ravens Fan]

Do you not remember all of the injuries sustained that year?

I remember McAlister missing like half the season. Not sure about anyone else. I think Ngata, Suggs, Reed, and Lewis played full seasons or close to full.

[Gatorman82]

For him, the most important stats arent yards per game, or even points per game. Its red zone percentage, and third down percentage. We were top 5 in both last year, so by those standards we did very well.

I was actually stunned to find that the defense was that good in 3rd down percentage - even in 2012. It seemed like they couldn't stop anyone until the red zone. Of course if they were giving up 1st downs a lot on 2nd down that would explain it.

Anyway, I'm not into "exotic" as much as a pressure defense. And not because it's fun to watch, but because the best way to stop a great passing game is by pressuring the QB. To do that you need a good secondary, but I think that has been a strength for the Ravens the last couple years.

Anyway, I hope you're right that Pees can put together a top 5 defense. I certainly will be rooting for him, but I'm not impressed so far.