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Thread: A reminder

  1. #16
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    Re: A reminder



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    And we have no idea how Aaron Mellette plays into this offensive equation. I'm not entirely convinced that he will ever be anything, but he made some nice plays during pre-season last year. Maybe we finally develop a late round receiver?

    I think Bobby Engram will be huge for this.


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    And speaking of Bobby Engram...coming from Pitt...

    Devin Street from Pitt in this draft. I'm sure he's in ears of everyone there, talking about him. I get a feeling if he's around in 4th or 5th round, he could be the pick
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  2. #17
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    Re: A reminder

    I would like Street. He's got some wheels on him.


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  3. #18
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    Re: A reminder

    Last year is over. The Ravens certainly didn't win the Super Bowl the year before because of their defense. Don't model the team on what worked this past year. The best teams anticipate what will work in the future. Honestly that's what I think the Ravens are looking at. They are trying to see past Ngata and recreate this defense into something that will be very different in 2015.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #19

    Re: A reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    I think he was ranked higher than the remaining ones, but that being said, I'm wondering if his value on Ozzie's board was less than 49ers pick.

    West was a player a lot of people from Baltimore liked, but in the whole RB class, rates pretty equal with guys remaining.

    If he wasn't from Baltimore, it'd be a non-story
    Indeed. There are several RBs left that I like better as prospects (Carey, Seastrunk, Thomas, Crowell, Williams). Maybe West turns out to be a good player, but it's silly to assert Ozzie was screwed by Cleveland taking him. There are plenty of good prospects left at the position.




  5. #20

    Re: A reminder

    Seattle and SF also are paying their QB peanuts, have great FOs and great coaches and hit some serious draft homeruns.

    The whole issue about addressing the offense, imo, springs from us totally breaking the franchise's tradition regarding paying for a QB. I don't know of anyone who believes great defense and milquetoast offense cannot win a SB. The issue is whether you can afford/create a great defense and a non-putrid offense while paying your QB 10-15% of the cap.




  6. #21
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    Re: A reminder

    Seattle's historically great defense doesn't change the fact that nearly every SB winner for the past decade has had a good to great offense led by an elite QB with good to great weapons around him. Be it Rodgers and his crew, Brees and his, Eli and Cruz, Ben and Ward/Holmes/Miller, Manning and his guys, Brady, etc, etc. Sure, defense plays a role, and a couple of those teams had pretty good defenses, but for the most part those teams won because their offenses were great. Trying to put together a team in Seattle's image is risky to me and will likely lead to failure, and I don't believe Ozzie's intention is to do that.

    I'll say again I like this draft other than the Jernigan pick, but those who are knocking it and wishing for more offensive help are totally valid in their concern IMO.




  7. #22
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    Re: A reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizerooskie View Post
    Indeed. There are several RBs left that I like better as prospects (Carey, Seastrunk, Thomas, Crowell, Williams). Maybe West turns out to be a good player, but it's silly to assert Ozzie was screwed by Cleveland taking him. There are plenty of good prospects left at the position.
    I'd be happy with Seastrunk or Carey. If by Thomas you mean De'Anthony, I am very curious about him. He has excellent hands and to me looks quite comfortable as a slot WR. Maybe not consistent enough as a WR in the NFL. Don't know what the Ravens would do with him, but Kubiaks' offense (which may not be a carbon copy of what he's done in the past, lets bear in mind) might have a wrinkle to accommodate.

    Crowell worries me, but has talent. In that vein, I'd look at Damien Williams of Oklahoma. NFL.com has a pretty negative write up, but in fact he is one of the most electrifying athletes at the position. Heading into the season he was Phil Steele's #2 rated pro RB prospect. He ended up splitting time and getting kicked off the team, but NFL.com has nothing in its writeup about his ability, only his downsides, which makes me think they only scouted this season. He could very well be this year's Darren Sproles, provided that the negative things about his work ethic prove to be symptoms of his relationship with Stoops during his senior season, and nothing more.

    He is such a fantastic athlete he is going to be hard to ignore / pass up late on.

    **EDIT: or is that the Williams you had in mind?




  8. #23

    Re: A reminder

    Brady has never won a Super Bowl with great weapons.

    In 2002, he had Troy Brown, David Patten, and Deion Branch as his 3 biggest weapons.
    In 2004 he had Patten, Branch, and David Givens
    In 2005, it was Branch, Givens, and Brown

    Rodgers' crew had one WR that had ever hit 1000 yards prior to that season (Jennings). None of the other WRs had ever broken 700 yards. Rodgers made them into weapons.

    Manning didn't have Cruz for his first run, and didn't have a receiver break 600 yards that season.
    In his second run, he did indeed have Cruz. When was he drafted?

    Ward/Holmes/Miller is not better than Smith/Smith/Pitta. It's actually a remarkably similar makeup.

    Brees had an innovative offense and a stud in Colston surrounded by a bunch of also-rans like Devery Henderson, Robert Meacham, and Lance Moore. Shockey was their top TE and Graham wasn't half the player he is now.

    So this whole thing about great QBs with tons of weapons winning Super Bowls is a myth.
    Last edited by Mizerooskie; 05-10-2014 at 10:39 AM.




  9. #24

    Re: A reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    I'd be happy with Seastrunk or Carey. If by Thomas you mean De'Anthony, I am very curious about him. He has excellent hands and to me looks quite comfortable as a slot WR. Maybe not consistent enough as a WR in the NFL. Don't know what the Ravens would do with him, but Kubiaks' offense (which may not be a carbon copy of what he's done in the past, lets bear in mind) might have a wrinkle to accommodate.

    Crowell worries me, but has talent. In that vein, I'd look at Damien Williams of Oklahoma. NFL.com has a pretty negative write up, but in fact he is one of the most electrifying athletes at the position. Heading into the season he was Phil Steele's #2 rated pro RB prospect. He ended up splitting time and getting kicked off the team, but NFL.com has nothing in its writeup about his ability, only his downsides, which makes me think they only scouted this season. He could very well be this year's Darren Sproles, provided that the negative things about his work ethic prove to be symptoms of his relationship with Stoops during his senior season, and nothing more.

    He is such a fantastic athlete he is going to be hard to ignore / pass up late on.

    **EDIT: or is that the Williams you had in mind?
    I think De'Anthony Thomas will be the Sproles-type player. I don't buy into his 40 time at all. He's much much faster than that with pads on. I've been on him for a while, because the tape is just so damn good. Line him up in the slot, on punt returns, or in the backfield and he can contribute. That's great value at this point in the draft.

    I actually had Andre Williams in mind, but Damien is a good consideration as well.




  10. #25

    Re: A reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizerooskie View Post

    Manning didn't have Cruz for his first run, and didn't have a receiver break 600 yards that season.
    In his second run, he did indeed have Cruz. When was he drafted?
    In 2007, Eli Manning had Plaxico Burress who finished with 70 catches for 1025 yards and 12 TDs in the regular season, and he had the GW catch in the SB. And Toomer had 760 yards (on 59 catches) as their #2 that year.




  11. #26

    Re: A reminder

    I get the Ravens' draft strategy so far. I don't have a problem passing on offensive weapons, because as others have said, receivers do not make an offense great. Passing on the WRs available in this draft is totally defensible--there are still several good WRs available going into Day 3 (Jared Abbrederis is probably my favorite still available.) Mid-round WRs can give you everything you need.

    I don't have a problem with loading up on defensive talent. I quibble somewhat with the specific players we've drafted so far, because they don't do the things that the top defenses in the NFL do (get interior penetration and take away a team's top receiving threat.) Mosley is a WILL LB. Jernigan is a 4-3 run-stopping NT. Brooks was a good pick and I love how he can play FS, but he's not any kind of elite coverage talent.

    And yet, Ozzie has passed on better players for these guys--could have had Dennard in the 1st and Ealy in the 2nd, and those are guys who emulate the kind of defense Seattle just used to dominate the NFL last year. Tough, disciplined coverage combined with interior pass rush.

    And the other thing is offensive line! Brady never had great weapons at the skill positions, but the Patriots NEVER neglected his OL. And yet, so far, despite having the worst OL in the league last year, we have yet to draft a lineman, despite having plenty of shots at great OL like Gabe Jackson or Brandon Thomas.




  12. #27

    Re: A reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Loyola View Post
    Not true - he had 2015 tradeable picks available - knowing full well he was going to get at least three comp picks for 2015.
    Do you have any idea what it would take to do that? We wouldn't just be trading up, we would be asking a team to flat out give up a 2014 day 2 pick since we have nothing to give in return for 2014.




  13. #28
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    Re: A reminder

    Looking at the picks I'm seeing that this is a draft for 2015 and beyond. They signed a lot of older guys like both Smiths, Jacoby Jones and Owen Daniels for 2014. These guys are their replacements.

    Ozzie is in a different situation than most GMs. There is no and never will be a hot seat for him. He doesn't have to make a splash to keep his job. That allows him to plan for the future in a way that most teams can't. He's looking at the not so distant future when Flacco's cap number becomes an issue and is trying to draft players that will allow him to get out of these more expensive contracts given to older players.

    In 2 years the only old guy who will still be on this team will be Suggs. Maybe Yanda has a shot if he keeps his price down. Smith, Smith, Jones, Ngata, Rice, Daniels and Pitta will all be gone in 2016. The Patriots and Packers have done the same thing. The Steelers and 49ers are going in that direction. We have a 2 year window with this group and then the guys drafted in 2013 and 2014 are going to be taking over with holes filled in free agency.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  14. #29

    Re: A reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    In 2007, Eli Manning had Plaxico Burress who finished with 70 catches for 1025 yards and 12 TDs in the regular season, and he had the GW catch in the SB. And Toomer had 760 yards (on 59 catches) as their #2 that year.
    Yeah, you're right. Clicked the wrong link in PFR. The overall point still remains, those guys weren't surrounded by tons of weapons.




  15. #30

    Re: A reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Looking at the picks I'm seeing that this is a draft for 2015 and beyond. They signed a lot of older guys like both Smiths, Jacoby Jones and Owen Daniels for 2014. These guys are their replacements.

    Ozzie is in a different situation than most GMs. There is no and never will be a hot seat for him. He doesn't have to make a splash to keep his job. That allows him to plan for the future in a way that most teams can't. He's looking at the not so distant future when Flacco's cap number becomes an issue and is trying to draft players that will allow him to get out of these more expensive contracts given to older players.

    In 2 years the only old guy who will still be on this team will be Suggs. Maybe Yanda has a shot if he keeps his price down. Smith, Smith, Jones, Ngata, Rice, Daniels and Pitta will all be gone in 2016. The Patriots and Packers have done the same thing. The Steelers and 49ers are going in that direction. We have a 2 year window with this group and then the guys drafted in 2013 and 2014 are going to be taking over with holes filled in free agency.
    You gotta get more specific on your Smiths, man. It confused the hell outta me for a minute. I was wondering why on Earth you'd want Torrey or Jimmy gone in 2016




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