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  1. #205


    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    yes my words. Decades of the barriers to entry growing with the monopoly exemption. I guess, theoretically he COULD... but it's not a realistic option in the slightest. So basically, forcing him to sell the team is depriving him of a right to earn a living. Which might be a stretch for a guy that would have over half a billion in the bank, after taxes... It just doesn't seem right that someone could be forced to sell their business like that. I repeat, I am not saying this from a "I have studied this up and down" POV, simply looking at it logically is all. And MY POINT, is that he simply has to get a judge to agree to listen to his arguments, not BUY THEM. He doesn't have to win in court to cause major problems for the NBA, simply get it there..
    It is not HIS business in the sense of him owning a diner. He is a franchisee. He owns a team within an association. An association that has rules. He is not the sole proprietor. Never was. Even though we, as Americans, think of him as an owner of a business, his ownership has entanglements.




  2. #206
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    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    yes my words.
    Decades of the barriers to entry growing with the monopoly exemption.

    I guess, theoretically he COULD... but it's not a realistic option in the slightest.

    So basically, forcing him to sell the team is depriving him of a right to earn a living. Which might be a stretch for a guy that would have over half a billion in the bank, after taxes... It just doesn't seem right that someone could be forced to sell their business like that.
    I repeat, I am not saying this from a "I have studied this up and down" POV, simply looking at it logically is all.
    And MY POINT, is that he simply has to get a judge to agree to listen to his arguments, not BUY THEM. He doesn't have to win in court to cause major problems for the NBA, simply get it there..
    Depriving him of a right to earn a living...that's a hard one to sell for someone who has a large influx of annual income from several different sources. No one is taking his housing development business from him, or the stocks he owns, or the "charity" organization he runs, or the dividends he makes off of investments, etc. Don't equate this to you or I losing our jobs and falling on economical hardship with Sterling losing one business venture.

    You say your looking at it logically...IMO the logical standpoint is that his comments have/will cost his business partners their bottom line, MONEY. It is good business for them to remove him from their group so that won't happen. Exactly why they wrote the bylaws the way they did.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  3. #207

    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyD79 View Post
    It is not HIS business in the sense of him owning a diner. He is a franchisee. He owns a team within an association. An association that has rules. He is not the sole proprietor. Never was. Even though we, as Americans, think of him as an owner of a business, his ownership has entanglements.
    Could be wrong, but my understanding is that it is a self standing business that participates in an association.

    As an example.

    Let's say I won "Jonboy's Food Service, LLC" which operates several McDonald' s.
    Sure, if I screw up McDonalds can pull my franchise rights, but they can't force me to sell the LLC. I could go buy a bunch of taco bell franchises to operate under the same business. could I not?




  4. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Could be wrong, but my understanding is that it is a self standing business that participates in an association. As an example. Let's say I won "Jonboy's Food Service, LLC" which operates several McDonald' s. Sure, if I screw up McDonalds can pull my franchise rights, but they can't force me to sell the LLC. I could go buy a bunch of taco bell franchises to operate under the same business. could I not?
    It is not a self standing business. It is a franchise within the nba. He cannot just put his team anywhere which he could if it were self standing. He cannot violate the league salary cap, which he could if it was self standing.

    He may have a corporation that owns the team and they cannot make him sell the corporation but they sure can make him sell the team.

    For brevity sake, we say he owns the team but he probably has a corporate front. (Or maybe not. Wikipedia lists him as the owner. Usually they have the corporation name. If he owns it directly, there is no corporation to change as in your example.)




  5. #209

    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyD79 View Post
    It is not a self standing business. It is a franchise within the nba. He cannot just put his team anywhere which he could if it were self standing. He cannot violate the league salary cap, which he could if it was self standing.

    He may have a corporation that owns the team and they cannot make him sell the corporation but they sure can make him sell the team.

    For brevity sake, we say he owns the team but he probably has a corporate front. (Or maybe not. Wikipedia lists him as the owner. Usually they have the corporation name. If he owns it directly, there is no corporation to change as in your example.)
    it just seems so un-American...

    and my point has been, that he just has to get a judge to allow it into court...

    IF HR is right(could certainly be) and the by-laws are all legal and by the book and contract law doesn't violate normal business conditions, etc, then he very well might not find a judge willing to legislate from the bench in that manner. In which case, he better sell, QUICKLY... that just feels wrong on so many levels to me.




  6. #210
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    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Could be wrong, but my understanding is that it is a self standing business that participates in an association.

    As an example.

    Let's say I won "Jonboy's Food Service, LLC" which operates several McDonald' s.
    Sure, if I screw up McDonalds can pull my franchise rights, but they can't force me to sell the LLC. I could go buy a bunch of taco bell franchises to operate under the same business. could I not?
    I believe that's how sports leagues used to be organized. But with several leagues and teams opening, folding, and merging each year...sports leagues reorganized themselves to be more self sustaining.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  7. #211
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    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyD79 View Post
    It is not a self standing business. It is a franchise within the nba. He cannot just put his team anywhere which he could if it were self standing. He cannot violate the league salary cap, which he could if it was self standing.

    He may have a corporation that owns the team and they cannot make him sell the corporation but they sure can make him sell the team.

    For brevity sake, we say he owns the team but he probably has a corporate front. (Or maybe not. Wikipedia lists him as the owner. Usually they have the corporation name. If he owns it directly, there is no corporation to change as in your example.)
    Jonboy is right. They're not franchisees. They're individual business operating under a trade association. All the pro sports teams are like that.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #212
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    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Jonboy is right. They're not franchisees. They're individual business operating under a trade association. All the pro sports teams are like that.
    Hmm didn't know that.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  9. #213
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    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    it just seems so un-American...

    and my point has been, that he just has to get a judge to allow it into court...

    IF HR is right(could certainly be) and the by-laws are all legal and by the book and contract law doesn't violate normal business conditions, etc, then he very well might not find a judge willing to legislate from the bench in that manner. In which case, he better sell, QUICKLY... that just feels wrong on so many levels to me.
    Everything is un-American.
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  10. #214
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    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    Hmm didn't know that.
    Small correction now that I did a little reading on it.

    After the merger of the NBL, they now run the league as a quasi franchisee operation, but it also requires a membership in the Association.

    So the NBA is, in essence, both a trade association and a franchiser. Very odd how its organized.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #215
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    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Small correction now that I did a little reading on it.

    After the merger of the NBL, they now run the league as a quasi franchisee operation, but it also requires a membership in the Association.

    So the NBA is, in essence, both a trade association and a franchiser. Very odd how its organized.
    That's kinda weird.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  12. #216

    Re: Would the NFL Ban an Owner for Life?

    The NBA will not have an easy time forcing Sterling to sell the team, unless they get a judge who is willing to ignore the legal language of the NBA's Constitution and By-laws.

    The hurdle to clear for the other owners to force a sale is way higher than the Chapter 35 language provided earlier in the thread. That language related to Silver's power to discipline an owner. And his powers are limited to suspensions (which he exercised to the max, permanent) and fines (which he exercised to the max, $2.5M).

    The relevant language in terms of the other owners being able to force a sale of a team (with 3/4 vote) is contained in Article 13, and the requirements are:

    ...
    (a) Willfully violate any of the provisions of the Constitution and By-Laws, resolutions, or agreements of the Association.

    (b) Transfer or attempt to transfer a Membership or an interest in a Member without complying with the provisions of Article 5.

    (c) Fail to pay any dues or other indebtedness owing to the Association within thirty (30) days after Written Notice from the Commissioner of default in such payment.

    (d) Fail or refuse to fulfill its contractual obligations to the Association, its Members, Players, or any other third party in such a way as to affect the Association or its Members adversely.

    (e) Wager or countenance wagering by its officers or employees on any game in which a Team operated by a Member of the Association participates.

    (f) Willfully permit open betting, pool selling, or any other form of gambling upon any premises owned, leased, or otherwise controlled by the Member or an Owner, except, subject to Article 8(a), for gambling activities that are lawful in the applicable jurisdiction and do not involve in any way, directly or indirectly, gambling with respect to any aspect of the Association’s games, events, property, players, or other personnel.

    (g) Offer, agree, conspire, or attempt to lose or control the score of any game participated in by a Team operated by a Member of the Association, or fail to suspend immediately any officer or any Player or other employee of the Member who shall be found guilty, in a court of law or in any hearing sanctioned by this Constitution and By- Laws, of offering, agreeing, conspiring, or attempting to lose or control the score of any such game or of being interested in any pool or wager on any game in which a Team operated by a Member of the Association participates.

    (h) Disband its Team during the Season, dissolve its business, or cease its operation.

    (i) Willfully fail to present its Team at the time and place it is scheduled to play in an Exhibition, Regular Season, or Playoff Game.

    (j) Willfully misrepresent any material fact contained in its application for Membership in the Association.
    ....

    It is (a) that the NBA's lawyers will argue has been satisfied, but Sterling's lawyers will clearly argue that the word "willfully" has not come close to being satisfied when talking about a private conversation that was tape-recorded without Sterling's consent or knowledge.

    I suspect that in this day and age where judges routinely ignore the letter of laws and rule based on their own personal preferences, Sterling will eventually still lose. But legally, this is not an open and shut case by any means.




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