Gun to your head WR scenario

[alien bird]

As for the concept of "reach", that's just the opinion of some media types and posters on various boards. Ozzie has his own board and doesn't just download one off the internet, so how do we really know what is a reach or not a reach for the Ravens? We can all have opinions on it, but in the end it really boils down to this:

"Who the hell is Mel Kiper?" - Bill Tobin, 1994 draft

[Brien Jackson]

Ya know, I don't agree with it, but I sort of get the obsesion with drafting a WR early. I don't get the idea that Jacoby is going to ONLY be a kick returner at all.

[Brien Jackson]

As for the concept of "reach", that's just the opinion of some media types and posters on various boards. Ozzie has his own board and doesn't just download one off the internet, so how do we really know what is a reach or not a reach for the Ravens? We can all have opinions on it, but in the end it really boils down to this:

"Who the hell is Mel Kiper?" - Bill Tobin, 1994 draft

That doesn't really define a reach.

[leachisabeast]

It's a trendy thing to take a WR high every draft... But the fact is, we are more than good enough to make the play offs again with what we have there, while addressing a much larger need (either FS or RT). We are probably going to get two day 1 starters and possibly a sub package player from a deep draft like this with where we happen to be picking (or at least that's what the expectations should be). I think we'd be better off taking a Jarvis Landry or Cody Lattimer in the 3rd, and let them sit behind Steve Smith for a year or two. This is unless Evans falls to 17 of course, or that all of the other guys like Taylor Lewan, Clinton Dix, or Zack Martin are gone, and we have no other options than the likes of Beckham or Cooks.

Obviously Taylor Lewan is an absolute no brainer if he falls to us. If we somehow land him in the draft, I'd say we become front runners in the AFCN.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I'm more concerned with need here then "absolute value".
Beckham to a team that NEEDS a WR, in the ballpark of pick 17 is completely different from Beckham to the Ravens at 17.

"Should we draft our starting FS or our 5th WR this round?" is not a reasonable question to be asking. Again, TRUE BPA is one thing, but at 17 there is only 1 EXTREME scenario that makes Beckham TRUE BPA at 17, as if you eliminate QB's, I think I have him at EXACTLY 17... But as I stipulated earlier, if NO QB's go before our pick, I would think the phone's a ring-ing...

I said the premise of the thread is flawed, because I can't envision a situation in reality where the Ravens have NO CHOICE but to take one of these three guys. IF we are gonna reach, I'd rather reach for Nix or Tuitt...

I'm not disagreeing with you although I'd obviously be more ok with Beckham than you would be.

[alien bird]

That doesn't really define a reach.

Sure it does. A lot of posters on this board are saying that Marqise Lee (for example) is a reach at 17. How do you know he's a reach at 17? Maybe the Ravens have him as their 17th best player, so if they choose him at 17 he certainly wasn't a reach - unless you think the media and some guys posting on a message board after work or between classes know more than Ozzie Newsome does.

[alien bird]

It's a trendy thing to take a WR high every draft... But the fact is, we are more than good enough to make the play offs again with what we have there, while addressing a much larger need (either FS or RT).

Those might not be much larger needs in the eyes of the Ravens. They might just feel more comfortable with Darian Stewart and Ricky Wagner than they are with Marlon Brown. I am not saying that's the case, but all too often the fans' perception of need and value differs greatly from the Ravens' brain trust.

I'm not pimping for a WR in the first round, by the way. I just find it interesting that so many pundits are so definitive in terms of knowing what the Ravens need and who has more value. Sure, it's an opinion, but some take their own opinion as fact and never consider another viewpoint.

[jonboy79]

I'm not so sure that is written in stone. If you have an offense that is going to go with 4 WRs on occasion and don't want to use Jacoby Jones in that role, then your 5th receiver is seeing the field on offense. There is no rule that says he has to play special teams, and other players (CBs, LBs) might simply be better on special teams, yet the #5 WR brings value elsewhere. In general I think you are right, but like I said, it's not a given.

Have you ever seen the ravens or Kubiak's team go with 4 WR's in any sort of regularity at all?

NO to both. typically the 3rd WR in both circumstances are 30-40 catch guys... with very little if anything but crumbs left for WR's outside the top 3 options.

[jonboy79]

We need a 100 catch/yr #1 receiver in the Ravens offense, PERIOD, so don't discount the need at the WR position. The Ravens FO are probably thinking in their minds that we will not be drafting #17 again since we are a perennial playoff team, so this might be the year to go get that #1 receiver. I think Cooks (Antonio Brown with T Y Hilton speed) and Beckham (a faster Heinz Ward type) fit that bill (Lee... probably a #1B ceiling... so maybe the greater value is not there compared to the 2nd round mock players). The Ravens FO might not agree with me or you, but that's my opinion.

I have no problem taking Watkins or Evans, even as high as 12... They legitimately have a shot to leap frog Torrey Smith within their rookie deal.

IMO, none of these other guys do, at least by any measurable amount.

A legit #1 is worth 17. Guys that project to be #2's do not, FOR THIS TEAM.

Especially when we don't have a starting FS, RT or NCB, but have 4 productive NFL WR's already in house and signed for at least a couple years(save Torrey, who is very likely to get extended).


Bottom line, #5 WR vs starting FS... you pick what's more important.

And the person who put up the laughable scenario where the Ravens might be more satisfied with Darian Stewat then Marlon Brown needs to pass what they are smoking...

[bt12483]

If QBs last late, and we go elsewhere at 17, the following WRs could easily be gone before our 2nd rd pick:
Lee, cooks, Beckham, Robinson, Adams, Latimer, moncrief, Matthews, Bryant, Benjamin.

It is a deep WR draft but there are still different talent tiers.

[bt12483]

I have no problem taking Watkins or Evans, even as high as 12... They legitimately have a shot to leap frog Torrey Smith within their rookie deal.

IMO, none of these other guys do, at least by any measurable amount.

A legit #1 is worth 17. Guys that project to be #2's do not, FOR THIS TEAM.

Especially when we don't have a starting FS, RT or NCB, but have 4 productive NFL WR's already in house and signed for at least a couple years(save Torrey, who is very likely to get extended).


Bottom line, #5 WR vs starting FS... you pick what's more important.

And the person who put up the laughable scenario where the Ravens might be more satisfied with Darian Stewat then Marlon Brown needs to pass what they are smoking...

so according to you we should draft someone like Jimmie ward at 17 over Beckham because we need FS more? Free agency is for need. Not draft.

[jonboy79]

If QBs last late, and we go elsewhere at 17, the following WRs could easily be gone before our 2nd rd pick:
Lee, cooks, Beckham, Robinson, Adams, Latimer, moncrief, Matthews, Bryant, Benjamin.

It is a deep WR draft but there are still different talent tiers.

no chance they are all gone, and youa re sort of making my point. PLENTY of WR talent available DEEP into the second and third round.

at FS, the is Clinton-Dix and "sort of" Pryor and Jimmy Ward. All likely will be gone by 48 with nothing to follow, worth starting at least.

There are 15 or more WR's worthy of our pick at 79, maybe even 20... all could eventually be a starter in this league in the future when called upon.