View Poll Results: Pick 17: Lee or Beckham or Cooks

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  • Lee

    11 25.58%
  • Beckham

    26 60.47%
  • Cooks

    6 13.95%
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  1. #91
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    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario



    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    It's a trendy thing to take a WR high every draft... But the fact is, we are more than good enough to make the play offs again with what we have there, while addressing a much larger need (either FS or RT).
    Those might not be much larger needs in the eyes of the Ravens. They might just feel more comfortable with Darian Stewart and Ricky Wagner than they are with Marlon Brown. I am not saying that's the case, but all too often the fans' perception of need and value differs greatly from the Ravens' brain trust.

    I'm not pimping for a WR in the first round, by the way. I just find it interesting that so many pundits are so definitive in terms of knowing what the Ravens need and who has more value. Sure, it's an opinion, but some take their own opinion as fact and never consider another viewpoint.




  2. #92

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by alien bird View Post
    I'm not so sure that is written in stone. If you have an offense that is going to go with 4 WRs on occasion and don't want to use Jacoby Jones in that role, then your 5th receiver is seeing the field on offense. There is no rule that says he has to play special teams, and other players (CBs, LBs) might simply be better on special teams, yet the #5 WR brings value elsewhere. In general I think you are right, but like I said, it's not a given.
    Have you ever seen the ravens or Kubiak's team go with 4 WR's in any sort of regularity at all?

    NO to both. typically the 3rd WR in both circumstances are 30-40 catch guys... with very little if anything but crumbs left for WR's outside the top 3 options.




  3. #93

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    We need a 100 catch/yr #1 receiver in the Ravens offense, PERIOD, so don't discount the need at the WR position. The Ravens FO are probably thinking in their minds that we will not be drafting #17 again since we are a perennial playoff team, so this might be the year to go get that #1 receiver. I think Cooks (Antonio Brown with T Y Hilton speed) and Beckham (a faster Heinz Ward type) fit that bill (Lee... probably a #1B ceiling... so maybe the greater value is not there compared to the 2nd round mock players). The Ravens FO might not agree with me or you, but that's my opinion.
    I have no problem taking Watkins or Evans, even as high as 12... They legitimately have a shot to leap frog Torrey Smith within their rookie deal.

    IMO, none of these other guys do, at least by any measurable amount.

    A legit #1 is worth 17. Guys that project to be #2's do not, FOR THIS TEAM.

    Especially when we don't have a starting FS, RT or NCB, but have 4 productive NFL WR's already in house and signed for at least a couple years(save Torrey, who is very likely to get extended).


    Bottom line, #5 WR vs starting FS... you pick what's more important.

    And the person who put up the laughable scenario where the Ravens might be more satisfied with Darian Stewat then Marlon Brown needs to pass what they are smoking...




  4. #94
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    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    If QBs last late, and we go elsewhere at 17, the following WRs could easily be gone before our 2nd rd pick:
    Lee, cooks, Beckham, Robinson, Adams, Latimer, moncrief, Matthews, Bryant, Benjamin.

    It is a deep WR draft but there are still different talent tiers.




  5. #95
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    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I have no problem taking Watkins or Evans, even as high as 12... They legitimately have a shot to leap frog Torrey Smith within their rookie deal.

    IMO, none of these other guys do, at least by any measurable amount.

    A legit #1 is worth 17. Guys that project to be #2's do not, FOR THIS TEAM.

    Especially when we don't have a starting FS, RT or NCB, but have 4 productive NFL WR's already in house and signed for at least a couple years(save Torrey, who is very likely to get extended).


    Bottom line, #5 WR vs starting FS... you pick what's more important.

    And the person who put up the laughable scenario where the Ravens might be more satisfied with Darian Stewat then Marlon Brown needs to pass what they are smoking...
    so according to you we should draft someone like Jimmie ward at 17 over Beckham because we need FS more? Free agency is for need. Not draft.




  6. #96

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    If QBs last late, and we go elsewhere at 17, the following WRs could easily be gone before our 2nd rd pick:
    Lee, cooks, Beckham, Robinson, Adams, Latimer, moncrief, Matthews, Bryant, Benjamin.

    It is a deep WR draft but there are still different talent tiers.
    no chance they are all gone, and youa re sort of making my point. PLENTY of WR talent available DEEP into the second and third round.

    at FS, the is Clinton-Dix and "sort of" Pryor and Jimmy Ward. All likely will be gone by 48 with nothing to follow, worth starting at least.

    There are 15 or more WR's worthy of our pick at 79, maybe even 20... all could eventually be a starter in this league in the future when called upon.




  7. #97

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    so according to you we should draft someone like Jimmie ward at 17 over Beckham because we need FS more? Free agency is for need. Not draft.
    NO, there is CERTAIN to be better value there then that.

    But I would ABSOLUTELY take Nix, Tuitt, Pryor or Barr over Beckaham.

    FA may be for need, but we don't have a FS and there are NONE starting caliber left on the market. So this is literally our last chance to grab one.




  8. #98
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    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    no chance they are all gone, and youa re sort of making my point. PLENTY of WR talent available DEEP into the second and third round.

    at FS, the is Clinton-Dix and "sort of" Pryor and Jimmy Ward. All likely will be gone by 48 with nothing to follow, worth starting at least.

    There are 15 or more WR's worthy of our pick at 79, maybe even 20... all could eventually be a starter in this league in the future when called upon.
    2009. Last offensive first rd draft pick.




  9. #99
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    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    NO, there is CERTAIN to be better value there then that.

    But I would ABSOLUTELY take Nix, Tuitt, Pryor or Barr over Beckaham.

    FA may be for need, but we don't have a FS and there are NONE starting caliber left on the market. So this is literally our last chance to grab one.
    summer cuts, Kerry Rhodes.

    5 years since drafting 1st rd talent on offense




  10. #100
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    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    We already have two 1st rd picks in our secondary. Now we need to go rd 1 at FS just because they are scarce in this year's draft?

    That seems more of a reach to me than WR at 17. Don't reach for FS just because they are more scarce...that is when you get into trouble with drafting for need.

    Three 1st rd secondary picks in the AFCN also seems like overkill.




  11. #101

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    There will be solid starting FS to be drafted in the mid rounds, the Ravens just need to pick the right guy. That includes those who have played a lot of safety in college and the corner converts. There's a solid handful of guys to be had in that range.

    I would love to have Ward, but in the first I think Ozzie has to go offense.




  12. #102

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    My $.02 on FS

    HHCDix is a fraud. Another Bama DB destined to disappoint.
    Pryor is a nice SS/alright FS but its duplication with Elam
    Ward is alright but another under 6" guy
    My favorite is Bucannon by far. Size/Speed and he was excellent on a crappy team. He didn't have a team of college allstars that covered up his errors like Dix had with the Saban System.

    Now should they reach for Bucannon b/c of need? Maybe in the 2nd round.

    I dont agree that RT is as big of need as many of you think. Martin is a favorite here, but I think he is again a duplication of Yanda and KO. Excellent OG but alright RT. And we have Wagner, who may become a Kubes system RT that excels. I agree that if Lewan is there... run the pick in b/c he is Canton caliber at RT... but Martin?? I dont know if the team value is really there with him.

    I'd say a #1/1B receiver is a much greater need. The Ravens have a #1B guy in Torrey who can't run routes well and they got a band aid with Steve Smith. Past that... not much. Ok Brown is a nice redzone guy and could develop into a solid #2, but they still need a dominant guy. Again, I think Cooks and OBJ can be that guy (Lee... close.. but speed and dropsies are what make me question him)

    Let's face it also... they really need an interior DLineman that can collapse the pocket also.




  13. #103
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    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    My $.02 on FS

    HHCDix is a fraud. Another Bama DB destined to disappoint.
    Pryor is a nice SS/alright FS but its duplication with Elam
    Ward is alright but another under 6" guy
    My favorite is Bucannon by far. Size/Speed and he was excellent on a crappy team. He didn't have a team of college allstars that covered up his errors like Dix had with the Saban System.

    Now should they reach for Bucannon b/c of need? Maybe in the 2nd round.

    I dont agree that RT is as big of need as many of you think. Martin is a favorite here, but I think he is again a duplication of Yanda and KO. Excellent OG but alright RT. And we have Wagner, who may become a Kubes system RT that excels. I agree that if Lewan is there... run the pick in b/c he is Canton caliber at RT... but Martin?? I dont know if the team value is really there with him.

    I'd say a #1/1B receiver is a much greater need. The Ravens have a #1B guy in Torrey who can't run routes well and they got a band aid with Steve Smith. Past that... not much. Ok Brown is a nice redzone guy and could develop into a solid #2, but they still need a dominant guy. Again, I think Cooks and OBJ can be that guy (Lee... close.. but speed and dropsies are what make me question him)

    Let's face it also... they really need an interior DLineman that can collapse the pocket also.
    I just created a thread that analyzed draft pick distribution on our current roster.

    The lowest was S at 6.8 approximate round in the draft.
    The next lowest was WR at 5.2 approximate round in the draft.

    Ed Reed was 5'10/11".

    I think Ward is the best "center fielder" coverage S. Everything I've read about Buchanon is that he is a straight line guy that isn't great in coverage. Clinton-Dix scares me because of the Alabama program. And Pryor I agree seems a little too close to Elam (thumper, but slightly more rangy than Elam).

    I still say WR is a need. My little analysis shows it to be also. S is also a need obviously. But I just don't feel comfortable taking Clinton-Dix or Pryor in rd. 1. And I fear someone might snag Ward earlier than our 2nd rd pick.




  14. #104

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    We already have two 1st rd picks in our secondary. Now we need to go rd 1 at FS just because they are scarce in this year's draft?

    That seems more of a reach to me than WR at 17. Don't reach for FS just because they are more scarce...that is when you get into trouble with drafting for need.

    Three 1st rd secondary picks in the AFCN also seems like overkill.
    2 First rounders and it's still BY FAR the weakest position group on the team right now.
    I think the difference between the 3rd FS and 4th FS is greater then the difference between the 3rd wr and the 14th or 15th WR... I think teams drafting an entire round later will feel they got the better players then the 3rd WR taken. MId first round is a poor value, IMO, especially when WR isn't a huge need.

    HHCD and Pryor are rated better then Reid and Vacarro from last year, according to most of the talking heads.

    I'll blow you away with this one, but I can see a scenario where Cyrus Kuandijo is less of a reach at 17 then Beckham, and again fills a bigger need.




  15. #105

    Re: Gun to your head WR scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    My $.02 on FS

    HHCDix is a fraud. Another Bama DB destined to disappoint.
    Pryor is a nice SS/alright FS but its duplication with Elam
    Ward is alright but another under 6" guy
    My favorite is Bucannon by far. Size/Speed and he was excellent on a crappy team. He didn't have a team of college allstars that covered up his errors like Dix had with the Saban System.

    Now should they reach for Bucannon b/c of need? Maybe in the 2nd round.

    I dont agree that RT is as big of need as many of you think. Martin is a favorite here, but I think he is again a duplication of Yanda and KO. Excellent OG but alright RT. And we have Wagner, who may become a Kubes system RT that excels. I agree that if Lewan is there... run the pick in b/c he is Canton caliber at RT... but Martin?? I dont know if the team value is really there with him.

    I'd say a #1/1B receiver is a much greater need. The Ravens have a #1B guy in Torrey who can't run routes well and they got a band aid with Steve Smith. Past that... not much. Ok Brown is a nice redzone guy and could develop into a solid #2, but they still need a dominant guy. Again, I think Cooks and OBJ can be that guy (Lee... close.. but speed and dropsies are what make me question him)

    Let's face it also... they really need an interior DLineman that can collapse the pocket also.
    Even if Wagner is good enough to play RT, who plays LT iff Monroe is hurt?
    Who is backing up at RT, and what does that do to our depth on the inside?
    I'd trade our third to move up for Lewan in an Ideal world, followed closely by the same ammo to get Mike Evans... Because I agree that "TRUE #1" viable need, but I don't believe anyone past Watkins and Evans project that highly. I just happen to think that we can wait until later to get a guy to "add to the mix" particularly when a guy we take a round or two later isn't much if any worse.

    I'd be quite happy with Nix at 17, and Tuitt in a trade back scenario, but again I'd take Tuitt before any WR not named Watkins/Evans.

    Gilbert or Dennard would certainly be my choices ahead of Beckham, perhaps even Fuller.




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