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  1. #16

    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)



    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    So to recap

    1(30)-Tuitt/DE
    2(42)-Ward/FS
    2(61)-Matthews/WR
    3(84)-Jean Baptiste/CB
    3(99)- Fleming/RT
    4(134)-Fedorowicz/TE
    4(138)-Murray/QB
    5(175)-Gaffney/RB
    That's not a bad draft actually.




  2. #17
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Didn't we get an early 3rd and a mid-4th by trading down in 2010? I think we got like pick 42 in exchange for pick 25 and two others so the Broncos could draft Tebow. I would break out into laughter except our two picks were Kindle and Dickson. At least Pitta made up for it.

    Upshaw pick was acquired by trading down from the 1st round to 2nd round (28 to 35 I believe). We got an early 4th rounder just for moving down 7 picks. Of course, that pick was Gradkowski, so I'm not beating my chest there either.
    You may be right, but it's nearly impossible to orchestrate the draft like that. There are going to be other team's trading around, other GMs making wacky picks, etc. While it's possible the Ravens trade back and gather picks and then move up again (which I think is plausible), I just don't seeing the Ravens ending up with those players. I would be really surprised if a lot of these players were available at where we think they will go.




  3. #18
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    So to recap

    1(30)-Tuitt/DE
    2(42)-Ward/FS
    2(61)-Matthews/WR
    3(84)-Jean Baptiste/CB
    3(99)- Fleming/RT
    4(134)-Fedorowicz/TE
    4(138)-Murray/QB
    5(175)-Gaffney/RB
    I'm not in love with it, but if you let it settle in and remove the emotion it's a pretty nice haul. I told a GA alum friend of mine today I would love to see us find a way to get Murray. Not thrilled about Tuitt but otherwise those are good value picks IMO
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  4. #19
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by alien bird View Post
    You may be right, but it's nearly impossible to orchestrate the draft like that. There are going to be other team's trading around, other GMs making wacky picks, etc. While it's possible the Ravens trade back and gather picks and then move up again (which I think is plausible), I just don't seeing the Ravens ending up with those players. I would be really surprised if a lot of these players were available at where we think they will go.
    We go through this drill every year, Alien. You're a veteran poster here...you should know that Every year, people say that certain players won't be available at certain spots only to watch said player go 15 spots lower than even where the original poster projected. The reason...because of the GMs "wacky picks". This year, I think we will see a QB rush that will push a lot of the "in the trenches" players lower than initially imagined.

    Which picks would surprise you if they were available at the spots I slotted? Just curious...not arguing.




  5. #20
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    I'm not in love with it, but if you let it settle in and remove the emotion it's a pretty nice haul. I told a GA alum friend of mine today I would love to see us find a way to get Murray. Not thrilled about Tuitt but otherwise those are good value picks IMO
    What concerns you about Tuitt?




  6. #21
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    What concerns you about Tuitt?
    had a bit of a down year last year but I haven't done a lot of research on the guy.
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  7. #22
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    I'm not in love with it, but if you let it settle in and remove the emotion it's a pretty nice haul. I told a GA alum friend of mine today I would love to see us find a way to get Murray. Not thrilled about Tuitt but otherwise those are good value picks IMO
    There is no sexy pick there. I think that's why. Matthews isn't a sexy player but he's effective. Same with CJF and Gaffney. Tuitt and Ward and SJB have the potential to be sexy, but with the exception of maybe Tuitt, they aren't names that jump off the paper to the average fan.




  8. #23
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    had a bit of a down year last year but I haven't done a lot of research on the guy.
    I think his "down year" would still have been an impressive year for a lot of other players. He was an outright beast in 2012, living in the backfield. If Tuitt would have been draft eligible in 2012, he would have been a top 12 pick almost certainly. He wasn't as good in 2013, but it was still a decent season, in which he finished strong. I think this is a case where the bar was so dang high that aside from a first team all-american type season, he was going to loose his shine.




  9. #24
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    We go through this drill every year, Alien. You're a veteran poster here...you should know that ..... Which picks would surprise you if they were available at the spots I slotted? Just curious...not arguing.
    I'm wrong more often than I am right with the draft, so this doesn't really mean much but . . . .

    I think there could be a run on WRs and Matthews is gone by 61. That wouldn't bother me because I think there are several WRs who the Ravens could work into the rotation. I like Matthews a lot but I think a lot of teams do. It wouldn't surprise me if Jimmie Ward is long gone by 42. I'm just not sure he lasts past the 30s. Jean-Baptiste is another guy that I think GMs like a lot more than we think and will go in the 60s-70s.

    Of course, if that happens there will be other solid options available at those same positions and the Ravens will be fine for the most part. If they get eveyone they want, and that matches with what the posters on this board want, that would be a perfect storm. But it's fun to speculate and dream.




  10. #25
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    The draft thread is pushing 220 pages, so I'm gonna start this craziness in a new thread.




    Here is a different look at the upcoming draft using a crazy, but not unrealistic scenario.



    1- At pick 17, with Taylor Lewan and Mike Evans and Ha Ha off the board, the Ravens are agreeable to trade down as the next handful of prospects are scored evenly. The Arizona Cardinals come calling. The Cardinals have a respectable duo of WRs in Floyd and Fitzgerald, but have nobody on the roster behind them. With Fitzgerald entering the back 1/3rd of his HOF caliber career, the Cardinals are looking for a short term contributor who can play the slot and eventually be paired with Floyd long-term. With the Jets at 18--- the team most likely to take a WR---the Cardinals want Odell Beckham at 17.

    Using the draft value chart, trading from 17 to 20 gives you a value of 100 points. The Cardinals offer their 4th round pick (120), which carries a value of 54 points. Ozzie says no. Ozzie asks for the Cards 3rd rounder (pick 84), but the Cards say no, as they should, since it carries a 170 point value. The Cardinals throw in their 5th rounder (pick 160-27 points) and Ozzie agrees. Even though technically he gave up 100 points and only got 81 in return, it's still a great maneuver for the Ravens since they now have picked up two extra picks with only surrendering 3 spots in the 1st round.

    The Ravens now have the following picks: 20/48/79/99/120/134/138/160/175/194



    2- Pick 20 arrives. The Ravens are zeroing in on a cornerback or FS as Pryor/Dennard/Gilbert/Fuller are all still on the board. But wait, there might be another brother connection coming into play. Ozzie phone rings and it's a popular trading partner of late---the 49ers. It's no secret that the 49ers love Justin Gilbert and have been rumored to be looking to trade up in order to acquire him. With virtually every team between 20-29 going down as one that could use a CB, the odds of any of the trio reaching SF are slim. The 49ers have 12 overall picks, including 6 in the top 100, which of course Ozzie knows.

    By dropping from 20 to 30, the Ravens are going from 850 points to 620 points, which carries a significant collateral. 230 points is equal to the 72nd pick in the draft. Coincidentally the 49ers carry pick 77. However, Ozzie plays the odds that the 49ers interest in whoever they want to draft is sky high, given that the 49ers are climbing 10 spots. He also plays the odds that some of their picks might be more disposable if it yields a player who puts them "over the top in their minds". Ozzie asks for pick #61, which carries a 292 point value. The 49ers, while looking to make waves, are a smartly-run team and insist on pick 120 in return from the Ravens (54 point value). Ozzie sees that as a valuable pick that he doesn't want to surrender, and eventually offers pick 20 and a 3rd rounder-pick 79 (1045 total points) for picks 30/61/124 from San Fran (1036 points). In essence for trading down 10 spots, the Ravens get a late 2nd and a late 3rd in exchange for their mid 3rd. The 49ers and Ravens both walk away happy.

    The 49ers take Justin Gilbert.

    The Ravens now have picks 30/48/61/94/99/120/134/138/160/175/194. This puts the Ravens now with 11 overall picks, including two 2nds, three 3rds, and three 4ths. Look at it another way, by moving down 13 spots in the drafts, the Ravens re-gained the 4th rounder and 5th rounder that they lost by trading for Eugene Monroe (pick 120 and 160) AND managed to pick up an additional late 2nd rounder along the way (pick 61). So for the loss of 13 spots of in draft order in the first round, the Ravens got an extra 2nd rounder AND a ready-made, proven, capable LT in his prime. Would you make that trade? I certainly would.

    I'll finish part two of this draft in a few minutes when I get home.
    I like your #1 scenario but I posted comments from Bisciotti who said it's gonna be really hard to trade down this year because it's such a deep draft and a lot of teams will be doing it and besides, Ozzie won the SB recently doing it that way and other teams are copying.

    Bisciotti expects Ravens to stand still @17 and take the best player at that spot. That has worked before too.

    Ozzie is really gonna have to work the phones hard to trade down this year if he wants to trade down in 1st round.




  11. #26
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Exactly. The only way to trade up for a great value in round 2 or 3 is to trade down in round one.

    Ozzie's strength has been his ability to move around in the draft
    The following 2 links are to 2 posts of mine illustrating the Ravens 3rd round moving

    http://russellstreetreport.com/forum...177#post767177
    Since 2005 the times we have used our own is 2009 Lardarius Webb and 2013 Brandon Williams

    9 years, 10 players, exactly 2 with our own 3rd
    http://russellstreetreport.com/forum...ht=#post767272

    So if my count is correct we used our own 3rd rounder 6 times total in 18 drafts, trading it 66.6% of the time
    The other strength of the Ravens has been the solidity of their board, of which Ozzie is a part but so is everyone else starting with the Scouts.
    The beauty has been working draft position with board position.
    You may not be expressing it exactly as I am, but that is why both of us want to see some "wiggle room" created for Ozzie.

    If we have to just sit back and let the board play out, so be it, it will be solid enough to hold its own, but make for tense dull nail biting on draft day with us not being able to "change the clock"

    Personally I like the composite of your picks.... I think if we get Tuitt then Mt Cody is squeezed. However I would feel better if the Ravens moved uo somewhere and took somebody.... only because it feels better that we got a better gem as opposed to BPA
    To understand paranoid people better, follow them around.




  12. #27
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    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    If we were picking in say the early 20s I'd say yeah sure all for it. But I think this is the year to move up a few spots if need be or if we're sure someone is falling to stay put. We need a game changer difference maker this year. Not just a couple more good players and situational guys. We of course need those also but our first pick needs to be a game changer. We haven't had one in quite a few years.




  13. #28

    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Maybe this is the year we should trade a combination of this year and next year assortment of 2nd 3rd round picks and grab a guy like Evans. We were gifted a third this year maybe it's time.

    I wonder what our compensatory picks will look like next year. Maybe a 4th for Art, other than him no real impact names.




  14. #29

    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Look at the picks first
    I looked at your picks and they're fine, but it just seems unrealistic to me. Again, I want to trade back into the 20s in this deep draft, but I don't see how your scenario works.




  15. #30

    Re: What would you think about this draft? (Just for kicks on a Friday)

    It all depends on who's there. We very rarely have draft stock this high, I say it's time to capitalize on it. If a blue chip prospect is there we should take him. We've gotten good value picks at the end of the 1st, good players but few difference makers.




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