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  1. #91

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault



    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Your jungle reference makes all men out to be sexual predators incapable of self control. Thats ridiculous.

    I mean a woman with three dudes hanging out and drinking/smoking how did she think she wouldnt be molested/raped if she passed out?

    Does that really seem ok to you that they should be inherently linkedA? Woman should just expect that? I get your paragraph about criticizing I just dont think it should be something that should be expected. THEY made it a bad situation and By the time it was she was in no shape to do anything about it. Yet shes criticized for their actions?

    Is it smart to have 50k in your front seat? No because people steal.
    Is it smart to get in a car with a drunk? No because drunks arent safe behind the wheel.
    Is it good to hang out with men drinking? No because they rape?... thats where Im disconnected.
    Big ups to this post as well. People who engage in this kind of victim-blaming are basically insinuating that all men are potentially rapists. As a man, that is deeply insulting to me, yet it is almost always men who are saying shit like this to begin with. Do they not realize the implications of this way of thinking?




  2. #92
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  3. #93
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    ^^^ wrong thread perhaps?
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  4. #94
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    ^^^ wrong thread perhaps?
    whoops. well it's a slow time, thought it was applicable to the 9ers in general
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  5. #95

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    Whole lot of blame the victim in this thread. SMH.
    .
    I didn't see a whole lot of blame the victim. What I saw was people unwilling to call the guys rapists without more evidence. It's called presumption of innocence. Apparently only players that play for the Ravens are given that privileged by many on this board.




  6. #96

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    whoops. well it's a slow time, thought it was applicable to the 9ers in general
    CK now goes by Sarah@queen dominatrix ? Stranger things have happened, maybe that's why he kisses his biceps. LOL




  7. #97
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    I didn't see a whole lot of blame the victim. What I saw was people unwilling to call the guys rapists without more evidence. It's called presumption of innocence. Apparently only players that play for the Ravens are given that privileged by many on this board.
    I'm all for the presumption of innocence. The last sentence in my post that you did not quote, said we should wait for more information before making judgments. The overall tone of many posts in this thread is that if that woman was violated it's largely her fault for being in that situation. Something I fundamentally disagree with and find insulting.




  8. #98

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    I'm all for the presumption of innocence. The last sentence in my post that you did not quote, said we should wait for more information before making judgments. The overall tone of many posts in this thread is that if that woman was violated it's largely her fault for being in that situation. Something I fundamentally disagree with and find insulting.
    And yet when other posters actually give presumption of innocence you criticize them.
    Last edited by blah3; 04-14-2014 at 10:35 AM.




  9. #99

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Theres a big difference in presuming innocence and saying the victim is on a "money grab" or that she put herself in that situation to have been molested/raped which is the real topic ive been trying to address.

    If its not been clear, I have no idea what happened (either does the girl in question apparently) and im not willing to call them rapists at the moment, but for sake of argument i have used the circumstances as an example. if were going to assume their innocence id expect the same for the girl.
    -JAB




  10. #100

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    And yet when other posters actual give presumption of innocence you criticize them.
    No one has a problem with presumption of innocence. The problem we have is a different presumption: presumption of "false-victimhood." It's fair to point out that we don't know all the facts, but what we do know is that there is a woman who filed a complaint of a sexual nature with law enforcement; a woman whose last memory is apparently falling asleep naked (and having not consented to sex) in an apartment full of men. That same woman has now had a rape kit done which would have only occurred with her permission.

    And yet, as soon as the barest details of this story were reported, a legion of frathouse flunkies checked in to say that "she got herself into the situation," "it's probably a money grab anyway," "what did she expect to happen," etc. And that is why rape and sexual assault are still crimes that we don't deal well with as a society. For too many people, a victim of sexual assault has to go out of her way (and it's almost always "her") to prove she WASN'T asking for it. To prove she WASN'T lying. To prove she WASN'T responsible in some way for her own victimhood.

    There is no other class of crime that functions like that in our society. Victims of theft, fraud, assault, etc. don't have to go out of their way to overcome that kind of presumption. I have no problem with presuming the innocence of the men in question, but I DO have a problem with preemptively attacking the woman in question here. Let the facts play out for themselves, but don't approach the situation with an assumption that she was asking for it, deserved it, or is just making the whole thing up for a money grab.




  11. #101
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    No one has a problem with presumption of innocence. The problem we have is a different presumption: presumption of "false-victimhood." It's fair to point out that we don't know all the facts, but what we do know is that there is a woman who filed a complaint of a sexual nature with law enforcement; a woman whose last memory is apparently falling asleep naked (and having not consented to sex) in an apartment full of men. That same woman has now had a rape kit done which would have only occurred with her permission.

    And yet, as soon as the barest details of this story were reported, a legion of frathouse flunkies checked in to say that "she got herself into the situation," "it's probably a money grab anyway," "what did she expect to happen," etc. And that is why rape and sexual assault are still crimes that we don't deal well with as a society. For too many people, a victim of sexual assault has to go out of her way (and it's almost always "her") to prove she WASN'T asking for it. To prove she WASN'T lying. To prove she WASN'T responsible in some way for her own victimhood.

    There is no other class of crime that functions like that in our society. Victims of theft, fraud, assault, etc. don't have to go out of their way to overcome that kind of presumption. I have no problem with presuming the innocence of the men in question, but I DO have a problem with preemptively attacking the woman in question here. Let the facts play out for themselves, but don't approach the situation with an assumption that she was asking for it, deserved it, or is just making the whole thing up for a money grab.
    The fact of the matter are false rape allegations are not rare, so I don't think it's unreasonable to people to believe she might be "making it up as a money grab".

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/05...-than-thought/
    https://www.google.com/search?q=fals...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAQ




  12. #102
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    The fact of the matter are false rape allegations are not rare, so I don't think it's unreasonable to people to believe she might be "making it up as a money grab".

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/05...-than-thought/
    https://www.google.com/search?q=fals...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAQ
    Knee jerk conclusions based on little evidence doesn't help your side of the debate, no matter the number of articles you post.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  13. #103

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    No one has a problem with presumption of innocence. The problem we have is a different presumption: presumption of "false-victimhood." It's fair to point out that we don't know all the facts, but what we do know is that there is a woman who filed a complaint of a sexual nature with law enforcement; a woman whose last memory is apparently falling asleep naked (and having not consented to sex) in an apartment full of men. That same woman has now had a rape kit done which would have only occurred with her permission.

    And yet, as soon as the barest details of this story were reported, a legion of frathouse flunkies checked in to say that "she got herself into the situation," "it's probably a money grab anyway," "what did she expect to happen," etc. And that is why rape and sexual assault are still crimes that we don't deal well with as a society. For too many people, a victim of sexual assault has to go out of her way (and it's almost always "her") to prove she WASN'T asking for it. To prove she WASN'T lying. To prove she WASN'T responsible in some way for her own victimhood.

    There is no other class of crime that functions like that in our society. Victims of theft, fraud, assault, etc. don't have to go out of their way to overcome that kind of presumption. I have no problem with presuming the innocence of the men in question, but I DO have a problem with preemptively attacking the woman in question here. Let the facts play out for themselves, but don't approach the situation with an assumption that she was asking for it, deserved it, or is just making the whole thing up for a money grab.

    This is the full amount of what was reported about the incident.

    According to the report, the incident occurred April 1 when a woman went to Lockette's apartment in Miami at 9 p.m. Kaepernick and Patton were there, and the woman made drinks and served shots to the players. She was also told "to drink the shots she had to "hit" the bong which contained marijuana,' the report said.

    The report continues to say that the woman felt light headed and went to a bedroom where she was later joined by Kaepernick, with whom she had a sexual relationship in the past. Kaepernick then left the bedroom. The two did not have sex, she said in the report. The report says that Patton and Lockette peeked inside the bedroom and that the woman yelled at them to get out.

    According to the report, the woman does not remember anything about the night after that. She woke up in a hospital bed not knowing how she got there. The woman, whose name is redacted, reported the incident to police on April 3.


    There is simply nothing in those details that indicate rape. Heck she even said Kap did not have sex with her and left the room. Yet many had absolutely no problem speculating that that the guys raped her.
    No one wants the girl to have been raped. But not many seem too concerned about getting falsely accused of rape.




  14. #104

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    The fact of the matter are false rape allegations are not rare, so I don't think it's unreasonable to people to believe she might be "making it up as a money grab".

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/05...-than-thought/
    https://www.google.com/search?q=fals...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAQ
    Are you seriously using a Google News search as evidence of that point?

    The Faux News article you cite is a nearly 8 year old editorial with no author listed. It cites nearly 20 year old articles that don't even actually say what you seem to be claiming.

    The 1996 study (which is no longer even available) apparently found that in 25% of the sexual assault cases examined, the primary suspect was excluded by DNA testing. The article doesn't specify what class or classes of crimes were examined--just forcible rape/sexual assault, all sexual assault, etc... In any event, what they found doesn't mean 25% of the cases were precipitated on false reports; the primary suspect may not have been the perpetrator for ANY reason. To draw the conclusion that "25% of rape allegations are false" is ludicrous. Even if that were the case and 25% of rape/sexual assault accusations are false, that means 75% of them are not--meaning the vast majority are true.

    Determining the rate of legitimately false (as in, made up by the "victim") accusations of rape is notoriously difficult and the literature points to potential rates anywhere from 1%-47% with an outlier study even finding 90% (which I think is definitely bogus because no other study has ever duplicated those results.) The Wikipedia article is a good place to start reviewing those studies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_a...ney_.282006.29




  15. #105

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    This is the full amount of what was reported about the incident.

    According to the report, the incident occurred April 1 when a woman went to Lockette's apartment in Miami at 9 p.m. Kaepernick and Patton were there, and the woman made drinks and served shots to the players. She was also told "to drink the shots she had to "hit" the bong which contained marijuana,' the report said.

    The report continues to say that the woman felt light headed and went to a bedroom where she was later joined by Kaepernick, with whom she had a sexual relationship in the past. Kaepernick then left the bedroom. The two did not have sex, she said in the report. The report says that Patton and Lockette peeked inside the bedroom and that the woman yelled at them to get out.

    According to the report, the woman does not remember anything about the night after that. She woke up in a hospital bed not knowing how she got there. The woman, whose name is redacted, reported the incident to police on April 3.


    There is simply nothing in those details that indicate rape. Heck she even said Kap did not have sex with her and left the room. Yet many had absolutely no problem speculating that that the guys raped her.
    No one wants the girl to have been raped. But not many seem too concerned about getting falsely accused of rape.
    Well... there is, you know, the fact that she filed a complaint with law enforcement. A complaint that LE confirmed is sexual in nature. Maybe you missed some of the details that have emerged since the initial report, because what you cited is not "the full amount of what was reported." Here's a source: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv...stigation.html

    Meanwhile, Miami police are examining evidence and waiting on toxicology reports in the case, The Miami Herald reported on Friday. "We have to examine evidence and wait for some tests to come back, including toxicology reports," Police Chief Manuel Orosa told the newspaper. "We can present it to the state attorney and they can decide whether to continue." Orosa added: "It's too early to determine what the evidence indicates."

    The case is being handled by the Miami Police Department's Special Victims Unit, which investigates sexual battery and other serious crimes. Citing sources, the Herald reported that the unidentified woman underwent a rape test but that the results are not public. Kaepernick, Patton and Lockette have not been interviewed by police and no charges have been filed.




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