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  1. #109
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault



    Quote Originally Posted by Jayc00 View Post
    Some of you are putting too much into the "she put herself into that situation" comments. Nobody is cold hearting her, saying oh well it's her falult, nobody is condoning certian men's behavior towards women. What is being said is that some women maybe should think about it a little more, and be a little more cognizant of what she is getting herself in to. Is it right she should have to do that? NO. Is it an unfortunate reality in today's society? YES!
    Yeah, this doesn't help your cause much.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #110

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    This is one of the best posts I have ever read on this forum. There is a disturbing amount of mouth-breathing stupidity on this thread, but there's also posts like this that give me hope.
    Thanks. I appreciate that. I rambled because I was tired and a little upset (nothing anyone here hasn't seen before, haha), but I'm glad you liked my $.02.

    Quote Originally Posted by saintmatthew View Post
    This is why I like to take gender out of the argument, if only long enough to make a point. If a guy went over to some buddies house, say three or 4 of them They have some shots, smoke a bong and he passes out. Would he feel, waking up and realizing he'd been violated sexually despite having no memory of it, that is was simply his fault for putting himself in a bad situation?
    Sorry for how I worded my previous post. You're right to take gender out of it. The truth is there's no reason for anyone to have sex with anyone else if consent isn't clear between everyone. I went the male-to-female route because that's what this case contains, about 90% of all rape victims are female, and I'm a female myself (so I guess my default is to see things from that perspective).

    If a guy had gone through the same scenario as the Kaepernick woman, I would still hold the people who violated his body 100% responsible. Victim-blaming is wrong no matter the gender.
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  3. #111
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yeah, this doesn't help your cause much.

    You're still not getting the point.
    "What would you give for the man beside you?"




  4. #112

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    This thread is a complete train wreck.




  5. #113
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayc00 View Post
    You're still not getting the point.
    I'm getting everything you're saying.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #114

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayc00 View Post
    Some of you are putting too much into the "she put herself into that situation" comments. Nobody is cold hearting her, saying oh well it's her falult, nobody is condoning certian men's behavior towards women. What is being said is that some women maybe should think about it a little more, and be a little more cognizant of what she is getting herself in to. Is it right she should have to do that? NO. Is it an unfortunate reality in today's society? YES!


    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yeah, this doesn't help your cause much.

    I think you ARE missing his point.
    Credibility(maybe not the best word, but what I can come up with now) of the persons involved play a large factor in trying to determine what actually happened.
    Going to a party with 3 men alone, one of which she has had sexual relations with in the past lowers her credibility. That she cannot remember anything that happens lowers her credibility.
    That she has said that Kap did not have sex with her that night to the best of her recollection enhances the men's credibility. That the men called police out of concern for her welfare enhances their credibility.
    That is simple reality, no matter how much you would not like it to be.

    Now again (since apparently it has to be said everytime or you are blaming the victim), no one said it was OK to rape her. No one has said she asked for it.
    But until there is further evidence to come out, it is a very valid decision to come to be on the mens' side in this.




  7. #115
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayc00 View Post
    Some of you are putting too much into the "she put herself into that situation" comments. Nobody is cold hearting her, saying oh well it's her falult, nobody is condoning certian men's behavior towards women. What is being said is that some women maybe should think about it a little more, and be a little more cognizant of what she is getting herself in to. Is it right she should have to do that? NO. Is it an unfortunate reality in today's society? YES!
    What was "she getting herself into"? She knew Kaepernick, somewhat well apparently. One might hardly be blamed for trusting that a guy she already knew, and two of his friends, could manage to hang out in a room with a chick, have a few drinks, and manage not to rape anybody.

    And bear in mind, I agree there's no publicly available evidence to go pointing at any one person or even that an actual sexual assault happened. No doubt, there is plenty of room to question any accusation at this point, because there is very little evidence we know of.

    But I really don't get what this other track of the discussion -- the "getting herself into" deal -- is coming from, much less some of the other howlers earlier in the thread (E.g. "Oh, like she wasn't there to put out, yeah right!" etc.)

    She should have been able to trust a guy she'd already had a relationship with, and would be right to assume his friends were similarly trustworthy. Everybody you meet, you meet for the first time, usually through mutual friends and acquaintences. You don't go to a party where your friend introduces you to some friends and think "oh shit, I better leave, my friend's friends might rape me" unless you are highly paranoid, extremely weird, or your "friend" in incredibly sketchy to start with. I don't know of any red flags with Kapernick, as far as that kind of stuff. Sure he's a bicep-kissing douchebag with a healthy Jim Harbaugh-esque persecution complex, but I don't see how that gets us to "stay away from this dude, ladies."

    She should have therefore felt comfortable with Kapernick's friends as well.

    So again, there being no particular red flags with this group of guys that I've ever heard of, it comes back to this assumption that "drinking with guys is a precursor to rape, and if you hang out with guys and drink with them, well, you can't really act all that surprised when one of them inevitably rapes you, even though rape is wrong." I really can't see where else anyone is getting this idea. I don't know one thing about any of those three guys that says "stay away" before this.
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




  8. #116
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Money227 View Post
    This thread is a complete train wreck.
    Agreed with this
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  9. #117
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    What was "she getting herself into"? She knew Kaepernick, somewhat well apparently. One might hardly be blamed for trusting that a guy she already knew, and two of his friends, could manage to hang out in a room with a chick, have a few drinks, and manage not to rape anybody.

    And bear in mind, I agree there's no publicly available evidence to go pointing at any one person or even that an actual sexual assault happened. No doubt, there is plenty of room to question any accusation at this point, because there is very little evidence we know of.

    But I really don't get what this other track of the discussion -- the "getting herself into" deal -- is coming from, much less some of the other howlers earlier in the thread (E.g. "Oh, like she wasn't there to put out, yeah right!" etc.)

    She should have been able to trust a guy she'd already had a relationship with, and would be right to assume his friends were similarly trustworthy. Everybody you meet, you meet for the first time, usually through mutual friends and acquaintences. You don't go to a party where your friend introduces you to some friends and think "oh shit, I better leave, my friend's friends might rape me" unless you are highly paranoid, extremely weird, or your "friend" in incredibly sketchy to start with. I don't know of any red flags with Kapernick, as far as that kind of stuff. Sure he's a bicep-kissing douchebag with a healthy Jim Harbaugh-esque persecution complex, but I don't see how that gets us to "stay away from this dude, ladies."

    She should have therefore felt comfortable with Kapernick's friends as well.

    So again, there being no particular red flags with this group of guys that I've ever heard of, it comes back to this assumption that "drinking with guys is a precursor to rape, and if you hang out with guys and drink with them, well, you can't really act all that surprised when one of them inevitably rapes you, even though rape is wrong." I really can't see where else anyone is getting this idea. I don't know one thing about any of those three guys that says "stay away" before this.
    I think you missed the part where they talked about her smoking mary jane she wasn't only drinking. THAT'S what I mean by know what you're getting into. The situation leads me to believe one of three things, she's not used to smoking/drinking and she did a little bit too much, the weed was laced, or they roofied her. If it was one of the latter then that's unfortunate for that to happen. But you don't just pass out and not remember anything by smoking a little and having a few shots. Now if it she did go past her limit, couldn't control herself, or is a light or first time smoker (especially for a bong) that's what I mean by know what you're getting yourself into. Know your place, know your limit, know the situation.

    This is an update from the OP's original link...

    (UPDATE: 4:00 p.m. ET) The Miami Police Department is adamant that the investigation surrounds a “suspicious incident,” not a suspected sexual assault (via Mike Garafolo of Fox Sports).
    Which until further evidence comes out looks like she was just scared shitless she woke up in a hospital only knowing who she was with and what they were doing.
    "What would you give for the man beside you?"




  10. #118

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Here's the latest. http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-cou...-by?source=pkg

    Long and short is that Lockett called the police when a naked woman refused to leave his apartment. And we have a 10 page thread on this because...

    This is a perfect example of why I hate headline readers. None of the men have been charged with ANY crime, much less rape, yet here we are arguing about their innocence or guilt. Same thing that got me so pissed off over the Phil Robertson/GLADD fiasco. People see a headline, assume its the truth, then set up battle camps. Meanwhile the real story is vastly different than what both sides are arguing.

    EDIT: Y'all are arguing about this. I'm just entertained by the lot of you making up a bunch of scenarios to fit your preconceived notions about what might've happened.




  11. #119

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    Here's the latest. http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-cou...-by?source=pkg

    Long and short is that Lockett called the police when a naked woman refused to leave his apartment. And we have a 10 page thread on this because...

    This is a perfect example of why I hate headline readers. None of the men have been charged with ANY crime, much less rape, yet here we are arguing about their innocence or guilt. Same thing that got me so pissed off over the Phil Robertson/GLADD fiasco. People see a headline, assume its the truth, then set up battle camps. Meanwhile the real story is vastly different than what both sides are arguing.

    EDIT: Y'all are arguing about this. I'm just entertained by the lot of you making up a bunch of scenarios to fit your preconceived notions about what might've happened.


    Oddly enough the incident report seen here.........

    http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers/ci_...ice?source=pkg

    lists the 3 players as "suspects" and the woman who ended up in the hospital as the "victim".

    What most people fail to understand is that a person who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol is UNABLE to give consent to sex.

    99% of the time drunken hookups are not an issue but an intoxicated (drugs/alcohol) person is incapable of giving consent to have sex.

    http://www.pamf.org/teen/abc/sex/consent.html#What if a person does not/cannot give consent?

    "Certain circumstances make it impossible for a person to legally give consent. These circumstances usually involve cases in which a person is not mentally or physically capable of choosing whether to engage in sexual behavior.

    For instance, if someone is drunk or high on drugs, then that person cannot give consent. This means that even if someone seems eager to engage in sexual behavior, doing so can legally be considered sexual assault or rape if he or she is intoxicated."




  12. #120

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens825 View Post
    Oddly enough the incident report seen here.........

    http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers/ci_...ice?source=pkg

    lists the 3 players as "suspects" and the woman who ended up in the hospital as the "victim".

    What most people fail to understand is that a person who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol is UNABLE to give consent to sex.

    99% of the time drunken hookups are not an issue but an intoxicated (drugs/alcohol) person is incapable of giving consent to have sex.

    http://www.pamf.org/teen/abc/sex/consent.html#What if a person does not/cannot give consent?

    "Certain circumstances make it impossible for a person to legally give consent. These circumstances usually involve cases in which a person is not mentally or physically capable of choosing whether to engage in sexual behavior.

    For instance, if someone is drunk or high on drugs, then that person cannot give consent. This means that even if someone seems eager to engage in sexual behavior, doing so can legally be considered sexual assault or rape if he or she is intoxicated."
    I'm sitting here struggling to figure out what you're trying to say. I mean the words are spelled correctly, you've used punctuation marks, and yet it doesn't make any sense.

    The first part is alright, I guess. You have the incident report, which shows the "victim" is the same woman police were called on to remove from the house. Two days later the police report list the guys as "suspects". At no point does the reports say what they are suspected of, but you've jumped to your own conclusions.

    Then we turn the corner into a little place I like to call "What-the-flaming-fuckville". I've re-read my original post on the subject and it seems rather even-handed. You'll notice how I say, " None of the men have been charged with ANY crime, much less rape, yet here we are arguing about their innocence or guilt." What that means, in simple terms, is that... well... none of the men have been charged with any crime. It would be possible, I suppose, to make things simpler but I doubt that grunting and pointing would be an effective form of communication via the internet. It's a more nuanced method of communication. Really needs to be seen first hand to understand.

    And yet you provided stats and links to support an argument that we are not having. Why? Have I, in anyway, indicated that I believe a man should bone an unconscious woman? I do not, and have had many opportunities to test this chivalrous belief. Numerous women have swooned after catching their first glimpse of my rather prodigious manhood despite their friends' descriptive gesturing. Really needs to be seen first hand to understand.

    For those of you who aren't trying to force me to read date-rape pamphlets, why don't we try waiting until everything comes out before blasting the guys? The woman hasn't said rape happened, the police haven't said rape happened, and all we know so far is that she was out of it for a little while. There are multiple possibilities, each as likely as the other.

    EDIT BECAUSE THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED: Nobody knows yet if that woman even had sex that night, consensual or not.




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