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  1. #121

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault



    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    EDIT BECAUSE THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED: Nobody knows yet if that woman even had sex that night, consensual or not.
    well the rape kit should know, but they havent released that yet. I dont disagree that nothing is really pointing to them being guilty other than her not being able to remember if anything did or did not happen, hence the investigation.

    there is a lot unknown in this case which is why I dont think anybody should be (which I dont think they are) saying theyre guilty, but its brought up a conversation that goes outside this case, imo, even if mny are using it as an example. because things like this...

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Going to a party with 3 men alone, one of which she has had sexual relations with in the past lowers her credibility. That she cannot remember anything that happens lowers her credibility.
    ... does not make sense. It doesnt lower credibility that she went to a party with people she knew or at one time had a sexual relation with. Not remembering doesnt lower her creditability. these things have 0 effect on what took place after she blacked out. Its an incident report and not a sexual assault because theyre simply investigating what did happen. Theyre treating the investigation as sexual assault probably mostly due to her being naked and the state of mind she was in when the police arrived.

    They dont have to be guilty for alot of the mentality in this thread to be simply unjustified. saying Anti rape but first thought being to criticize the victim is a pro-rape sentiment, which i dont think some agree with/understand. Theres certainly some out there that abuse the system but its a minority and should be treated as such. shes not behind the investigation or saying they did anything yet first thought is to criticize her. I dont think people are arguing that theyre guilty, theyre arguing with the thought that its somehow her fault, or a situation she brought onto herself. a lot of generalizations being thrown around.
    -JAB




  2. #122
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by akashicrecorder View Post
    Thanks. I appreciate that. I rambled because I was tired and a little upset (nothing anyone here hasn't seen before, haha), but I'm glad you liked my $.02.



    Sorry for how I worded my previous post. You're right to take gender out of it. The truth is there's no reason for anyone to have sex with anyone else if consent isn't clear between everyone. I went the male-to-female route because that's what this case contains, about 90% of all rape victims are female, and I'm a female myself (so I guess my default is to see things from that perspective).

    If a guy had gone through the same scenario as the Kaepernick woman, I would still hold the people who violated his body 100% responsible. Victim-blaming is wrong no matter the gender.
    LOL, the point of my post was agreeing with you while presenting it a little differently. Also, we need more gif blogs....




  3. #123

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    because things like this...



    ... does not make sense. It doesnt lower credibility that she went to a party with people she knew or at one time had a sexual relation with. Not remembering doesnt lower her creditability. these things have 0 effect on what took place after she blacked out. Its an incident report and not a sexual assault because theyre simply investigating what did happen. Theyre treating the investigation as sexual assault probably mostly due to her being naked and the state of mind she was in when the police arrived.

    They dont have to be guilty for alot of the mentality in this thread to be simply unjustified. saying Anti rape but first thought being to criticize the victim is a pro-rape sentiment, which i dont think some agree with/understand. Theres certainly some out there that abuse the system but its a minority and should be treated as such. shes not behind the investigation or saying they did anything yet first thought is to criticize her. I dont think people are arguing that theyre guilty, theyre arguing with the thought that its somehow her fault, or a situation she brought onto herself. a lot of generalizations being thrown around.
    Sure it does. It may not be the way you or others like it, but it is reality. Place these people in a court of law trying to convict the guys of sexual assualt (hypothetically of course).
    Does a woman who has had previous sexual encounters with one of the guests (probably as a hook up and not dating), who can't remember much of anything and admitted to smoking pot and drinking alcohol have more credibility that those guys, who CAN remember what happened, and called the cops about her situation? She does not.
    Until there is further evidence to come out, then there is nothing that gives the woman the benefit of the doubt over the men.
    So while many are bent out of shape over perceived blaming of the victim, there a lots who have absolutely no problem casting aspersions towards the men.
    Until the rape kit comes back with evidence of actual sexual assualt, or there is some other evidence of such, I am going to give the men the presumption of innocence. Which does not mean I am blaming the victim.




  4. #124

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Sure it does. It may not be the way you or others like it, but it is reality. Place these people in a court of law trying to convict the guys of sexual assualt (hypothetically of course).
    Does a woman who has had previous sexual encounters with one of the guests (probably as a hook up and not dating), who can't remember much of anything and admitted to smoking pot and drinking alcohol have more credibility that those guys, who CAN remember what happened, and called the cops about her situation? She does not.
    Until there is further evidence to come out, then there is nothing that gives the woman the benefit of the doubt over the men.
    So while many are bent out of shape over perceived blaming of the victim, there a lots who have absolutely no problem casting aspersions towards the men.
    Until the rape kit comes back with evidence of actual sexual assualt, or there is some other evidence of such, I am going to give the men the presumption of innocence. Which does not mean I am blaming the victim.
    if shes on trial having had sex with him before would not discredit her if she had sex with him again, without consent. The two times are not linked. That would have zero effect. This is why i said earlier past or future doesnt matter, its present that does. You can rape your wife who willingly had sex with you for years, would willingly do so for future years, but didnt want to at that moment. Also, taking the word of the defendant in a case is not typically advisable either, there would be a little bit of an agenda there.

    I think you can claim presumption of innocence without trying to discredit or fault the victim.

    The fact that he was groping her and stopped is a good sign that CK wasnt going to take it further, though there is a blurred line that he was clearly trying to even though she was out of her mind. In this case, she was alright with that physicality, it was the last thing she remembered and didnt express issue with it to police. She then blacked out. CK apparently left and the other two were left alone with her, who she didnt know. CK left her there when he was her only acquaintance and in a vulnerable state, thats not illegal, but id say that does make him a dick, imo. One of the other guys called the police to get her out of his room. Nothing wrong with that either, probably the right thing to do and again pointing to CK being a dick to leave his friends to deal with a situation he brought on. what happened in between is the investigation. Nothing has come out either way, so presumption of innocence should be the path as far as this case goes. I dont think anybody is beating a "theyre guilty" drum in this case, but they have used the circumstances for a hypothetical if they did, which does muddy the waters a little.

    I do feel this convo went outside of just this one case and became more of a talking point on where were at as a society towards rape victims.

    if theyre rich they were just being targeted. if the victims drunk and alone with men its apparently expected that sexual assault will happen. if they had sex before, theyre apparently incapable of saying no for a second encounter. These are a lot of generalizations and stereotypes that have been said in this thread that help perpetuate the fear that woman, and men to a lesser degree, from coming forward after said sexual assaults. Were talking a small fraction that lie for attention or profit yet thats seems to be the first thought with many. the large number we should be concerned about is the number that never report it.
    -JAB




  5. #125
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I think you can claim presumption of innocence without trying to discredit or fault the victim.
    Bingo!
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #126
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I think you can claim presumption of innocence without trying to discredit or fault the victim.
    This. Thread over.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  7. #127

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I think you can claim presumption of innocence without trying to discredit or fault the victim.
    There would be no need to 'discredit' the victim (which I think is being overblown here) if there were presumption of innocence.




  8. #128

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Since this discussion has degraded from football to pure politics, it's time to move.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  9. #129
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by akashicrecorder View Post
    Thanks. I appreciate that. I rambled because I was tired and a little upset (nothing anyone here hasn't seen before, haha), but I'm glad you liked my $.02.



    Sorry for how I worded my previous post. You're right to take gender out of it. The truth is there's no reason for anyone to have sex with anyone else if consent isn't clear between everyone. I went the male-to-female route because that's what this case contains, about 90% of all rape victims are female, and I'm a female myself (so I guess my default is to see things from that perspective).

    If a guy had gone through the same scenario as the Kaepernick woman, I would still hold the people who violated his body 100% responsible. Victim-blaming is wrong no matter the gender.
    But the reality is that there are some guys here with pitchforks out in this situation that surely wouldn't have them out if the role of the sexes were switched or even if it was a guy on guy situation. They'd be even harsher on the guy in the role of the 'potential, but hopefully not' victim. It's been that way for years. So, either we're harsh on every body or the other way. You've chosen to go the other way, which I understand. I just feel like sometimes if guys are in these situations, which there have been cases, there is not nearly the same rush to their defense or verbal outcry for swift punishment.

    To be clear, I never said she was asking for it. I meant common sense would lead her to not put herself in that situation, which is why I don't think she did without intention. The pic posted right after my first major post about it said it all. That just didn't add up. If that were the case, she wouldn't have taken the bong hit, she'd have been suspicious. For that matter, she wouldn't have poured them all drinks in the first place. The idea that she and Kaepernick have slept together doesn't equate to her being comfortable going over some other guy's house and pouring three guys shots, voluntarily. I'm not going to speak for you or myself, but these days people don't even trust the ones they marry, let alone three guys cooped up in an apartment with a bong.

    The whole point I was trying to make is that common sense wouldn't lead her to make those decisions if she wasn't trying to get physical with them (We at least gather she was trying to with Kaep, he apparently undressed her) and that leads to doubt in the story, and that the 'blaming the victim' overtones, while not always intended, are quite normal when it's a guy in the situation. You've decided that it's wrong in that case and I can roll with that. I've decided that, honestly, I agree with you that the outcry should be just as fierce for guy victims, but that I know it wouldn't have been if this were three women 'suspected' of raping a guy. God forbid it were a guy on guy situation. There'd be jokes and everything.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  10. #130

    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    Today I learned that 90% of men could technically be considered guilty of rape.

    Brb buying breathalyzer, drug test and sexual consent contract




  11. #131
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    I heard today that the 49ers have halted extension talks with him until this is settled, so it has some legs if they are concerned enough to stop talking long-term contract.




  12. #132
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    Re: TMZ says Kaepernick is under investigation for sexual assault

    And after all that hoopla, of course, the story was B.S. and the man won't be charged.

    Trust the Sword.

    http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/kaep...-charges-miami
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




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