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  1. #1
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    Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX



    Another active shooter at Ft Hood. Just caught the breaking news on CNN ....
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #2

    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Another active shooter at Ft Hood. Just caught the breaking news on CNN ....
    we really need to take better care of our vets. I know he was getting help but this or suicide in general is at way too high of a rate. PTSD is no joke. Ive got a good many friends that had military service and all of them had a rough time adjusting to civilian life upon return, which isnt even necessarily PTSD. i know two that commited suicide upon return.

    I think we disagree but anyone diagnosed with PTSD has no business possessing a gun. own one, shoot one supervised, just dont be left alone with one (imo), for their own sake, at least until treatment can reach a level where theyre no longer a danger to themselves or others. Ive heard of families/friends taking them away but not everybody has that circle or really knowledge of what theyre going through to even take action like that. obviously a vet giving up their guns voluntarily isnt going to go over well no matter what. Even under supervision you can get into a chris kyle situation. I dont know what the answer is, tough situation, but I know we can do better at helping our vets in particular.
    -JAB




  3. #3
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    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    we really need to take better care of our vets. I know he was getting help but this or suicide in general is at way too high of a rate. PTSD is no joke. Ive got a good many friends that had military service and all of them had a rough time adjusting to civilian life upon return, which isnt even necessarily PTSD. i know two that commited suicide upon return.

    I think we disagree but anyone diagnosed with PTSD has no business possessing a gun. own one, shoot one supervised, just dont be left alone with one (imo), for their own sake, at least until treatment can reach a level where theyre no longer a danger to themselves or others. Ive heard of families/friends taking them away but not everybody has that circle or really knowledge of what theyre going through to even take action like that. obviously a vet giving up their guns voluntarily isnt going to go over well no matter what. Even under supervision you can get into a chris kyle situation. I dont know what the answer is, tough situation, but I know we can do better at helping our vets in particular.
    No, I agree with you.

    There's a lot of issues in play here and they're all tied together. One, the stigma of PTSD (or any mental health disorder for that matter) is still a huge issue. It's still a sign of weakness in many circles in the military, though they're working hard to charge that perception. Second, where's the line going to be drawn. As a gun enthusiast, I would be concerned that the threshold would be too arbitrary.

    I believe this guy wasn't officially diagnosed yet but did suffer from depression and anxiety. That's a tough one for me. A doctor obviously felt he was a danger but there are medications you can take to regulate it. Also, on all gun purchases, the buyer must fill out an ATF Form 4473. On that form, it asks if you've ever been found mentally defective by a court, but says nothing about a doctor diagnosis.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  4. #4

    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    No, I agree with you.

    There's a lot of issues in play here and they're all tied together. One, the stigma of PTSD (or any mental health disorder for that matter) is still a huge issue. It's still a sign of weakness in many circles in the military, though they're working hard to charge that perception. Second, where's the line going to be drawn. As a gun enthusiast, I would be concerned that the threshold would be too arbitrary.

    I believe this guy wasn't officially diagnosed yet but did suffer from depression and anxiety. That's a tough one for me. A doctor obviously felt he was a danger but there are medications you can take to regulate it. Also, on all gun purchases, the buyer must fill out an ATF Form 4473. On that form, it asks if you've ever been found mentally defective by a court, but says nothing about a doctor diagnosis.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
    being married to somebody with a mental disorder i can agree with most everything you said here. One caveat, which im not sure you were saying, but even when diagnosed the medication can be wrong. getting the right medication in most instances is the hardest thing and sometimes a constant battle of fluctuating states between medicated and non medicated, whether theyre taking something or not. from what ive seen first hand one can be medicated and have those ups and downs that make it uncertain for a Dr or a court.
    -JAB




  5. #5
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    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    being married to somebody with a mental disorder i can agree with most everything you said here. One caveat, which im not sure you were saying, but even when diagnosed the medication can be wrong. getting the right medication in most instances is the hardest thing and sometimes a constant battle of fluctuating states between medicated and non medicated, whether theyre taking something or not. from what ive seen first hand one can be medicated and have those ups and downs that make it uncertain for a Dr or a court.
    No doubt. And that only heightens my concern over banning weapons when such little is really know about dosages.

    Now I am reading that this guy, while deployed to Iraq, didn't see one second of combat and that he was in a support regiment. So all this talk of PTSD doesn't even matter it would seem.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    So sad. I wish he had gotten the help he needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Also, on all gun purchases, the buyer must fill out an ATF Form 4473. On that form, it asks if you've ever been found mentally defective by a court, but says nothing about a doctor diagnosis.
    What's to stop someone from lying on that form? Is the information provided on the form cross checked with anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Now I am reading that this guy, while deployed to Iraq, didn't see one second of combat and that he was in a support regiment. So all this talk of PTSD doesn't even matter it would seem.
    You can still suffer PTSD even if you don't see combat.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  7. #7
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    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    What's to stop someone from lying on that form? Is the information provided on the form cross checked with anything?
    Nothing is stopping someone from lying. That form is not used as a means of any background check by the ATF unless you're purchasing a Class III weapon (full auto, suppressed, SBR, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    You can still suffer PTSD even if you don't see combat.
    True. I should have said it most likely was not the issue. Especially considering his depression came right after his mothers death.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #8

    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    we really need to take better care of our vets.
    Agreed. Let's start by not sending them off to fight in wars that have little, if nothing, to do with the defense of our nation.




  9. #9
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    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Nothing is stopping someone from lying. That form is not used as a means of any background check by the ATF unless you're purchasing a Class III weapon (full auto, suppressed, SBR, etc)
    Interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    True. I should have said it most likely was not the issue. Especially considering his depression came right after his mothers death.
    Gotcha.

    His mother's death is more than likely what set him off. That plus he was only given 48 hours of leave to attend the funeral. So glad I joined the Air Force...better quality of life. I was 18 y/o and had only been at my first duty station, after basic training, for 2 weeks when my mother passed. The 1st Shirt came to my dorm room at 8:00pm and notified me. The next morning I was on a plane back home for 3 weeks of emergency leave. After I got back my supervisor gave me an additional 10 days off and made me stay at his off base house. He didn't want me to be alone in the dorms. There is no excuse for what the shooter did. But his leadership severely failed him.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  10. #10
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    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    His mother's death is more than likely what set him off. That plus he was only given 48 hours of leave to attend the funeral. So glad I joined the Air Force...better quality of life. I was 18 y/o and had only been at my first duty station, after basic training, for 2 weeks when my mother passed. The 1st Shirt came to my dorm room at 8:00pm and notified me. The next morning I was on a plane back home for 3 weeks of emergency leave. After I got back my supervisor gave me an additional 10 days off and made me stay at his off base house. He didn't want me to be alone in the dorms. There is no excuse for what the shooter did. But his leadership severely failed him.
    Y'all have better food but I don't think leave is a function of better quality of life per se. Granting leave is something that's dependent on a bunch of factors like current mission, future missions, force strength, etc. Most enlisted service members never see these numbers or orders, thus think it's just a supervisor being a hard ass.

    When I was in basic, a fellow soldier's mother died and within hours, he was on a plane back home and was gone a full week. Hurricane Andrew also hit Florida when I was in basic and a bunch of soldiers who lived in the Tampa area were back home within hours. Conversely, I've been in situations where a soldier requested leave and we knew a readiness drill was coming up that week and we turned it down and could not provide the reason to the soldier.

    Fort Hood is a VERY active base and frequently forward deploys. I would not be surprised if his unit was slated to deploy and they had not announced it yet, thus limiting the leave he was allowed to take.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #11
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    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Y'all have better food but I don't think leave is a function of better quality of life per se. Granting leave is something that's dependent on a bunch of factors like current mission, future missions, force strength, etc. Most enlisted service members never see these numbers or orders, thus think it's just a supervisor being a hard ass.

    When I was in basic, a fellow soldier's mother died and within hours, he was on a plane back home and was gone a full week. Hurricane Andrew also hit Florida when I was in basic and a bunch of soldiers who lived in the Tampa area were back home within hours. Conversely, I've been in situations where a soldier requested leave and we knew a readiness drill was coming up that week and we turned it down and could not provide the reason to the soldier.

    Fort Hood is a VERY active base and frequently forward deploys. I would not be surprised if his unit was slated to deploy and they had not announced it yet, thus limiting the leave he was allowed to take.
    As always there are limiting factors to approving leave. However it's been mine (and your) experience that emergency leave is granted special considerations above normal leave. Again, the mission comes first...but this guy had been diagnosed with mental problems (which his chain of command who have been aware of, unless I missed some details), maybe is slated to deploy again and his mother passed away. Those factors don't equal a solider who is ready to accomplish the mission IMO. Sometimes leadership gets too caught up in the mission and loses focus on the people beneath them. Did that happen here? IDK. Maybe they didn't want him going home unsupervised because of his mental issues.

    We got better food and better looking women...you know it's true HR.

    I've been here in Germany working on an Army base for a year and a half and this base sucks!
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  12. #12
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    Re: Active Shooter at Fort Hood, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    We got better food and better looking women...you know it's true HR.

    I've been here in Germany working on an Army base for a year and a half and this base sucks!
    Yeah, I'll grant you that one. But I wouldn't call Garrison Stuttgart a full blown Army base. Hasn't it been downsized a bunch of the last 10 years or so? I know it was on the BRAC list for a short time.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




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