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  1. #97
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    Aug 2007
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    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay



    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    To me, it would be akin to taking a Jewish prospect and saying he did really well at the "Counting Money" event in the Combine.

    Maybe you think that's a harmless joke. I still think it touches at some deeper seeded prejudice.

    In the end, I guess Michael needs to be ready for it. Because on the field, with trash talk, this stuff is going to come out. And he needs to prepare himself mentally to not let it affect him.
    Your middle paragraph hits it on the head.

    My best friend back in Maryland is gay. He's former special forces and saw combat in Grenada and the first gulf war. Make a joke to his face about the effeminate nature of gay men and applying it to all gay men and, after you pick your teeth up, will think twice about it.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #98

    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    So there's varying degrees of "kernels of truth". Got it.

    Any more qualifiers you wish to add on?
    You missed the point entirely, so no, you don't "got it."

    It has nothing to do with degrees of "kernels."

    You think Elkington is a Nazi, right? Got it.




  3. #99
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    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Your middle paragraph hits it on the head.

    My best friend back in Maryland is gay. He's former special forces and saw combat in Grenada and the first gulf war. Make a joke to his face about the effeminate nature of gay men and applying it to all gay men and, after you pick your teeth up, will think twice about it.
    This. I have gay friends, and I know one of them is sick of the tired stereotype of effeminate gay men.

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2




  4. #100

    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    To me, it would be akin to taking a Jewish prospect and saying he did really well at the "Counting Money" event in the Combine.

    Maybe you think that's a harmless joke. I still think it touches at some deeper seeded prejudice.

    In the end, I guess Michael needs to be ready for it. Because on the field, with trash talk, this stuff is going to come out. And he needs to prepare himself mentally to not let it affect him.
    Except that Jews have been persecuted for millennia on a level that makes the comparison an insult (same with comparing it to black persecution).

    And that Jews are not ostensibly better at counting money, and the stereotype was manufactured by racists (like the watermelon stereotype) precisely to denigrate the Jew (Merchant of Venice, etc.)

    Your second paragraph is really the crux of the matter. Unlike the examples of Jews and blacks, there is no evidence there is anything underlying those jokes.

    Similar to saying Asians are good at math, etc. They are stereotypes, and very innocuous ones. To the point they are routinely featured in sit-coms and benign stand-up routines, are laughed at or shrugged off by those targeted, and indicate no underlying, fundamental hatred. Unlike most Jew and black jokes, due to vast, horrific histories involved.

    Watch five episodes of Big Bang Theory and you'll see at least five Raj-is-gay (because he is effeminate) jokes. What you won't see is a hoard lemmings feigning indignation about the jokes, stories in the LA Times about the writers, or heated, hyperbolic discussions on the internet.




  5. #101

    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    I think what Haloti is saying, basically, is that there are much worse jokes about gays made everyday and nobody gets upset about them. HR brings up context and that's fine. That golfer made a joke about the helicopter crash in Scotland that killed nine people. In context, the golfer is an asshole.




  6. #102
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    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    In context, the golfer is an asshole.
    I think we can all agree about that.
    .
    .
    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  7. #103

    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    Anyone else think the "Jonathan martin saga" will effect the way teams view Michael Sam? What if another player says something that offends him? Will he quit the team or cause a big issue about it?

    Personally I think Sam has to be pretty mentally tough. After all, he said he was gay on TV. But some GM s might be cautious about him.




  8. #104
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    Houston, TX Y'all
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    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    You missed the point entirely, so no, you don't "got it."

    It has nothing to do with degrees of "kernels."

    You think Elkington is a Nazi, right? Got it.
    I'm not the one moving the goal posts.

    No, I don't think he's a Nazi. He's an asshole and a bigot though.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #105

    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens Fan View Post
    Anyone else think the "Jonathan martin saga" will effect the way teams view Michael Sam? What if another player says something that offends him? Will he quit the team or cause a big issue about it?

    Personally I think Sam has to be pretty mentally tough. After all, he said he was gay on TV. But some GM s might be cautious about him.
    I think the only thing affecting Sams is a really, really bad showing at the combine.




  10. #106

    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    I think when comedy is involved it gets sketchy. a comedian on stage saying these types of things, has the proper setting and people are prepared for it. Sitcoms, similar, but id say a little less due to reaching unprepared masses. when youre talking about a non-comedian in a public forum... no. the setting and intent is no longer expected at all. Lesson should be regular people shouldnt try to be funny in the same way comedians try. youre either a pro and its expected or youre an insensitive asshole (which comedians are kind of expected to be on some level). those that follow comedy closer will probably see the humor in it (however minimal), but id think should understand that theres a time and place for such things, and that wasnt it.
    -JAB




  11. #107
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Clayton,NC
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    7,340

    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I think when comedy is involved it gets sketchy. a comedian on stage saying these types of things, has the proper setting and people are prepared for it. Sitcoms, similar, but id say a little less due to reaching unprepared masses. when youre talking about a non-comedian in a public forum... no. the setting and intent is no longer expected at all. Lesson should be regular people shouldnt try to be funny in the same way comedians try. youre either a pro and its expected or youre an insensitive asshole (which comedians are kind of expected to be on some level). those that follow comedy closer will probably see the humor in it (however minimal), but id think should understand that theres a time and place for such things, and that wasnt it.
    I don't know anyone who is really saying what he said was okay, or that it was the time and place to say. Something can be funny without being the right thing to say or right time to say.

    Put that line in a stand up routine with better jokes and a better joke teller and it gets a chuckle.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  12. #108

    Re: BREAKING: Michael Sam is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I'm not the one moving the goal posts.

    No, I don't think he's a Nazi. He's an asshole and a bigot though.
    You are the one imagining goal posts being moved, and it stems from you missing the point.




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