Interesting Webchat with Kent Babb

**HotInHere** · 01-15-2014, 10:01 AM

Babb is a Washington Post writer who formerly covered the Chiefs and famously feuded with Scott Pioli. There is much to disagree with in this web chat, but some interesting nuggets.

Of local interest:

Q: In terms of front-office personnel that you've worked with/covered, who have you found to have the best "football mind?"

BABB: Probably as a result of the franchises I have covered — KC and Washington — none immediately comes to mind. I have only casually covered the 49ers and Ravens, but the Harbaugh boys are brilliant and don't get caught up in BS. They are among the disappearing minority who seem to realize that football is a sport. A high-level sport inside billion-dollar businesses, yes, but a sport nonetheless. They at least seem to understand that nobody cares about every little detail that other teams stupidly try to protect.

And I thought CincyCat and others would appreciate this interesting take on the situation up there:

Q: Do you have any thoughts on, or past experiences with Cincinnati Bengals ownership? Are they close to the Cleveland-Washington-Oakland axis of dysfunction, or further away? Is there any hope for Bengals fans?

BABB: I think they're a click below Detroit in terms of readiness to compete for Super Bowls. I don't hear a lot of bad stuff about the Bengals now. A decade ago? Yeah. I think Marvin Lewis has brought stability to the team, though I don't think many Bengals fans will agree with me on that right now, but at the same time, I also think he has done all he can there. Every year, no matter how the team does, I'm a little surprised he doesn't go somewhere else — if for no other reason a change of venue. The team and Lewis can succeed, but I'm not sure they will ever do it together.

**Yards** · 01-15-2014, 10:14 AM

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting. HArbaugh boys as brillilant? ok

**BcRaven** · 01-15-2014, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by HotInHere

And I thought CincyCat and others would appreciate this interesting take on the situation up there:

Q: Do you have any thoughts on, or past experiences with Cincinnati Bengals ownership? Are they close to the Cleveland-Washington-Oakland axis of dysfunction, or further away? Is there any hope for Bengals fans?

BABB: I think they're a click below Detroit in terms of readiness to compete for Super Bowls. I don't hear a lot of bad stuff about the Bengals now. A decade ago? Yeah. I think Marvin Lewis has brought stability to the team, though I don't think many Bengals fans will agree with me on that right now, but at the same time, I also think he has done all he can there. Every year, no matter how the team does, I'm a little surprised he doesn't go somewhere else — if for no other reason a change of venue. The team and Lewis can succeed, but I'm not sure they will ever do it together.

No offense, but eleven seasons with no playoff wins is not "stability" to me. That is unless it means never getting beyond the first playoff game. I believe Marvin and Co. are 0 - 5 in playoff competition.... Bc

**HotInHere** · 01-15-2014, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

No offense, but eleven seasons with no playoff wins is not "stability" to me. That is unless it means never getting beyond the first playoff game. I believe Marvin and Co. are 0 - 5 in playoff competition.... Bc

There's a difference between stability and success. I think he was contrasting with the pre-Marvin Bengals. Or as the SBXXXV Ravens liked to think of them, the 'slump busters.'

That team had revolving doors everywhere: coach, QB, coordinators. That's why i liked his take. It's a two-step process for franchises like that. First stability, then success. Marvin took the first step toward stability. While Cincy might not be winning meaningful games, I don't think anyone thinks of them as a 3-ring circus anymore. 10 years ago we looked at them the way we look at the Browns and Raiders right now.

The question is, is he the guy to take the next step, namely success, that you are referring to?

**GOTA** · 01-15-2014, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

No offense, but eleven seasons with no playoff wins is not "stability" to me. That is unless it means never getting beyond the first playoff game. I believe Marvin and Co. are 0 - 5 in playoff competition.... Bc

Before Marvin got there they hadn't had a winning season since 1990. It's all relative

**JimZipCode** · 01-15-2014, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Before Marvin got there they hadn't had a winning season since 1990. It's all relative

The Bengals have now had 3 straight winning seasons and 3 straight playoff appearances. The last time that happened in Cincinnati? N-E-V-E-R. The Bengals have never had 3 straight playoff appearances before. Not when Kenny Anderson was there taking them to a SB, and not when Boomer Esiason took them to the SB. Only once have they had 3 straight winning seasons, and that was in 1975-6-7. Bill friggin Walsh was the OC then, under Paul Brown (at least for the first of those years).

Marvin has done a fabulous job there. We expect more, and that's appropriate, but there's no need to undermine what Marvin has accomplished there. That's a whole different organization than it was 10 yrs ago.

**B-more Ravor** · 01-15-2014, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

Marvin has done a fabulous job there. We expect more, and that's appropriate, but there's no need to undermine what Marvin has accomplished there. That's a whole different organization than it was 10 yrs ago.

Marvin has done a fabulous job there and I hope the historically patient (ie frugal) Mike Brown get impatient and fires him!!!

What I think a lot of people don't realize about the Cinncy job is just how much the HC does. He's basically the HC, GM and head of the (very small) scouting dept. Given that all of that is on his plate, I don't see how anyone can think he hasn't done very well there (even if he has shown some shortcomings in big games), especially given where that team was before he arrived.

**GOTA** · 01-15-2014, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

The Bengals have now had 3 straight winning seasons and 3 straight playoff appearances. The last time that happened in Cincinnati? N-E-V-E-R. The Bengals have never had 3 straight playoff appearances before. Not when Kenny Anderson was there taking them to a SB, and not when Boomer Esiason took them to the SB. Only once have they had 3 straight winning seasons, and that was in 1975-6-7. Bill friggin Walsh was the OC then, under Paul Brown (at least for the first of those years).

Marvin has done a fabulous job there. We expect more, and that's appropriate, but there's no need to undermine what Marvin has accomplished there. That's a whole different organization than it was 10 yrs ago.

That's why I laugh when I hear these calls to replace Marvin Lewis. Lewis is dealing with the league's smallest scouting department and an owner who is GM and hires his family to run the front office. It's amazing he's done as well as he has given those limitations. Mike Brown won't get rid of him anyway because the Bengals win enough to bring in money.

**CincyCat** · 01-15-2014, 02:35 PM

I enjoy the views from other places. Marvin has done well, but we need to do more. Lotta talent on this team.

I think Hue will help. No more 50 plus passes per game.

**JimZipCode** · 01-16-2014, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by CincyCat

I think Hue will help. No more 50 plus passes per game.

Be careful about Hue. He has a rep as an asshole who will undermine the HC and divide the team. I think Marvin will need to keep a firm hand.

**BcRaven** · 01-16-2014, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by HotInHere

... The question is, is he (Marvin Lewis) the guy to take the next step, namely success, that you are referring to?

No. Tony Dungy had success in Tampa, but it took Gruden to get them to/win the Super Bowl. While there are too many examples to write, IMO 11 years is more than enough time to see if your guy can take the next step or not. With Marvin, I think the answer is "not." Even Billick was HC of the SB XXXV winners, then had 7 up-and-down years and was let go... Bc

**BcRaven** · 01-16-2014, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Before Marvin got there they hadn't had a winning season since 1990. It's all relative

I'm not doubting that what you post is true, but the point of the exercise is to get to and win a Super Bowl. While I give Marvin credit for helping to 'stabilize' a franchise that was in chaos, that job is done now. So should Bengals fans be satisfied with making the playoffs occasionally, then going one-and-done every single time? ... Bc