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  1. #31
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation



    Quote Originally Posted by Sascha View Post
    I don't think it makes sense to compare rookies in today's NFL to rookies from decades ago. With the salary cap and the way that rookie contracts are now slotted, NFL teams are at a huge advantage when they can get meaningful production out of players who are still under their relatively inexpensive rookie contracts
    Yet, none of these rookies past Elam and Brown played. Coaches still want vets especially in crucial situations. Like Phil
    said before the season started, KJ would play mostly special teams and that's the way it was while Brown was broken in slowly and even our #1 pick cost us at least 1 crucial game.

    One point about this class I forgot to make was, Ozzie drafted at the very bottom and got Elam just like Heap at the bottom of his draft. Heap made that draft alone as Elam will make his draft a success alone even if all the lower picks fail. Elam and Brown will make this a great draft.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 01-11-2014 at 01:40 PM.




  2. #32

    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    In addition to Art Browns injury he was also transitioning from playing in a 4-3 defense in college to having to learn a 3-4 hybrid D. He still managed to be mostly effective as the nickel backer.




  3. #33

    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    This is an interesting post... I certainly agree with the OP's general sentiment...

    There are several circumstances that played in Brown (Marlon) and Elam favor.... Let's be fair.... Would Brown play that many snap if our WR corp wasn't so morbidly bad in the first two or three games? Would he if Jones didn't suffer an injury (thanks to that bonehead)?

    As for Elam.... Elam played just 13 snaps in the first game, then started and played every snap in the second game against the Browns... That tells me that the coaching staff lost faith in Huff after reviewing the film.... Sure enough, Huff rarely saw the field after the first game...

    How many times have we screamed why Arthur Brown wasnt in the game on third-downs? Yes, Brown was hurt, but he could be used situationally like Suggs was in his rookie year.

    Now... let's put somethign else into perspective... Webb.... There was a consensus that Webb was a better player than Fabian Washington, yet Webb didnt start.... When Webb was finally getting around, he got hurt on a special team play....

    Jimmy Smith? He got hurt in the first game, so it is hard to say... nonetheless, he got hurt on a special team play....

    I think this coaching staff doesnt play rookies inasmuch because the staff isnt adapting to the rookies' skillset... The staff wants the rookies to fill in the departing veterans, that was why Tandon Doss was ahead of Brown until Flacco was clearly pissed at Doss... that was why Juice didn't see much offensive snaps or being used in situations...

    I am not saying that the rookies should immediately play every down or whatsoever... they should at least be given chance to showcase their skillset on the field rather than "filling in" for the departed/injured veterans...




  4. #34
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    Hence, you'll see teams like the Colts, Seahawks, and 49'ers have serious problems when those QB contracts come up. They're getting a pass now because those QB's are really cheap but will have trouble fielding competitive teams because they'll be commanding big $$$. I could see the Seahawks and 9ers having big issues, especially on the defensive side.
    We were just saying that at the water hole last night. SF has its day coming when Kap's contract comes up. Each of these great teams have a window and you better get in the SB when that window is open. Ravens made it in their window and\ won it. They should have made it two years in a row and won both of them but Lee Evans messed us up. That was our window but we got it all the next year.

    Look at Pissburgh, they've missed POs two years in a row now and haven't been that great since their SB. They
    got out of their window and restructured and got into CAP hell while getting old and slow. .




  5. #35
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Thoughts View Post
    This is an interesting post... I certainly agree with the OP's general sentiment...

    There are several circumstances that played in Brown (Marlon) and Elam favor.... Let's be fair.... Would Brown play that many snap if our WR corp wasn't so morbidly bad in the first two or three games? Would he if Jones didn't suffer an injury (thanks to that bonehead)?

    As for Elam.... Elam played just 13 snaps in the first game, then started and played every snap in the second game against the Browns... That tells me that the coaching staff lost faith in Huff after reviewing the film.... Sure enough, Huff rarely saw the field after the first game...

    How many times have we screamed why Arthur Brown wasnt in the game on third-downs? Yes, Brown was hurt, but he could be used situationally like Suggs was in his rookie year.

    Now... let's put somethign else into perspective... Webb.... There was a consensus that Webb was a better player than Fabian Washington, yet Webb didnt start.... When Webb was finally getting around, he got hurt on a special team play....

    Jimmy Smith? He got hurt in the first game, so it is hard to say... nonetheless, he got hurt on a special team play....

    I think this coaching staff doesnt play rookies inasmuch because the staff isnt adapting to the rookies' skillset... The staff wants the rookies to fill in the departing veterans, that was why Tandon Doss was ahead of Brown until Flacco was clearly pissed at Doss... that was why Juice didn't see much offensive snaps or being used in situations...

    I am not saying that the rookies should immediately play every down or whatsoever... they should at least be given chance to showcase their skillset on the field rather than "filling in" for the departed/injured veterans...
    They're given that chance in training camp and very few beyond the top draft choices prove themselves worthy to get much playing time let alone starting until they've been around a while. Look how long it took Kruger to show something and he was a second round pick. It took Art Jones a while to get this good and he'll get a big contract now - same with Ellerbe and JJ who already got theirs but it took a while.




  6. #36
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    If Juszczyk isn't folded into the offensive gameplan this year that pick was a waste. I just have no confidence our offensive coaches know how to use a guy like Juszczyk.

    If Simon is only going to put up reps in the gym, that pick was also a waste given the depth we had at that position.

    Right now both of last years 4th rd picks seem sketchy. Part of that is on the coaches part of that is on Ozzie.




  7. #37

    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    They're given that chance in training camp and very few beyond the top draft choices prove themselves worthy to get much playing time let alone starting until they've been around a while. Look how long it took Kruger to show something and he was a second round pick. It took Art Jones a while to get this good and he'll get a big contract now - same with Ellerbe and JJ who already got theirs but it took a while.
    Hmm... Kruger was a prime example.... Kruger was asked to bulk up.... in my opinion, he was asked to assume the role of Trevor Pryor... as a result, he wasn't effective until we had a DC who could use him properly.... then Suggs got hurt, he was asked to play "Suggs", which wasnt his specialty... his specialty was getting after the QBs.... We sure would have used his specialty earlier...

    I am not saying that rookies should see significant playing time.... rather, rookies should be given opportunity to showcast themselves in the game (not all rookies are great practice-players).... by playing the rookies, we can give the veterans breather here and there...

    Simply put, this coaching staff is basically taking rookies like a college football staff would do.... take a player and mold that player into whatever the staff wants....

    In light of salary cap era, I, for one, would like to see rookies to play more.... so that we get maximum productivity out of them rather than waiting until a year or two before their contract for us to finally tap into their potentials or end up shelling out big bucks...




  8. #38
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    First round pick should be a starter (maybe not if QB...) and ours became a starter.
    Admittedly by poor play from Huff, but he did play, and I have sky high expectations that learning role at FS will help him as he moves to the natural SS (as Kruger's stint to DL gave him a extra set of LB advantage) .... we can even consider Elam a virtual 2nd rounder since where we were drafting.

    I don't see a bust yet the only iffy is Simon who I can't shake Jason Phillips who is still playing in the league but didn't exactly fit out system, hopefully I'm wrong but he is the bad mark concern,

    Participation? we were the SB champions not a runner up (more participation) or the Browns who led

    What might be interesting is how many did KC Chiefs have? who had the monster turn-around? Was it rookie play or veteran infusion (as we did)?
    To understand paranoid people better, follow them around.




  9. #39
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Thoughts View Post
    In light of salary cap era, I, for one, would like to see rookies to play more.... so that we get maximum productivity out of them rather than waiting until a year or two before their contract for us to finally tap into their potentials or end up shelling out big bucks...
    That's all well and good, but the main goal is to win football games. You do that by putting the best players out there. It takes a while to adapt to the NFL game, so if your best players are rookies, that's probably not a good thing.

    Even our best rookie -- Elam -- made some huge mistakes, some game-changing mistakes. That's what you're going to get with rookies, no matter how physically talented they are.
    "Leave. Your. Mark."




  10. #40
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    The Ravens seem to draft a lot of "projects", guys who need to bulk up and guys from small schools where the competition is weaker. Guys who take longer to become starters.


    WORLD CHAMPIONS 2000 * 2012




  11. #41
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    The Ravens seem to draft a lot of "projects", guys who need to bulk up and guys from small schools where the competition is weaker. Guys who take longer to become starters.
    That's what happens when you don't draft in the top 10, but the bottom 10 yearly.
    I'm sure Ozziw would have loved to see Kenny Vaccaro or Eric Reid available when the Ravens picked, but they were long gone when he chose Elam @ #32... Bc




  12. #42
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Thoughts View Post
    Hmm... Kruger was a prime example.... Kruger was asked to bulk up.... in my opinion, he was asked to assume the role of Trevor Pryor... as a result, he wasn't effective until we had a DC who could use him properly.... then Suggs got hurt, he was asked to play "Suggs", which wasnt his specialty... his specialty was getting after the QBs.... We sure would have used his specialty earlier...

    I am not saying that rookies should see significant playing time.... rather, rookies should be given opportunity to showcast themselves in the game (not all rookies are great practice-players).... by playing the rookies, we can give the veterans breather here and there...

    Simply put, this coaching staff is basically taking rookies like a college football staff would do.... take a player and mold that player into whatever the staff wants....

    In light of salary cap era, I, for one, would like to see rookies to play more.... so that we get maximum productivity out of them rather than waiting until a year or two before their contract for us to finally tap into their potentials or end up shelling out big bucks...
    You're right about Kruger and Pags was the one who finally figured out what to do with Kruger - too little too late. Kruger only had 1 sack last year until Suggs returned and then got hot at end of the season and playoffs but only had 2 sacks this year w/o Suggs while playing in Cleveland. Hell, he only had a few snaps in the SB and bitched about it when he left.

    Boller was a prime example of a rookie that shouldn't have started. He never adapted to the speed of the pro game and even said the game sure is faster up here. When Ravens drafted Flacco, Billick was asked on TV if Ravens would start him. Billick said, you're asking me? I was just run out of Baltimore for starting Boller as a rookie. ILMAO. So true.

    Ravens had every intention to sit Joe as a rookie because of what happened to Boller. Troy Smith was supposed to start but he got really sick in summer camp. Then Boller took over and was injured in the pre-season. Joe started by default. There was no one left and he almost went to the SB as a rookie but he was the exception to the rule.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 01-11-2014 at 04:21 PM.




  13. #43
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    Re: Ravens Rookie Class Gets Bad Marks for Participation

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Troy Smith was supposed to start but he got really sick in summer camp.
    Gotta be careful at summer camp. Who knows what you'll catch.




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