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Thread: The WR Thread.

  1. #1
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    The WR Thread.



    It seems to me that many posters feel Sammy Watkins is the best WR in this draft. How does his game shape up? Could anyone break down how he was used, his strengths, weaknesses? How that would translate to a Ravens offense with say...Norv Turner calling plays, or with Kubiak calling plays.

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  2. #2
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    Re: The WR Thread.

    Well...Clemson used him a lot on screens, and reverses. Basically if you give him space and/or blockers he can make things happen on his own.

    Similar to Cobb in GB IMO. But with a bigger body.




  3. #3

    Re: The WR Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Well...Clemson used him a lot on screens, and reverses. Basically if you give him space and/or blockers he can make things happen on his own.

    Similar to Cobb in GB IMO. But with a bigger body.
    Watkins is a very, very good player, but I don't see him as a Randall Cobb/Percy Harvin type. Those guys are extremely quick and fluid. Watkins is more of a stiff-hipped, straight-line speed guy, and that makes him a better fit for a vertical-based offense as opposed to a West Coast style offense. In other words, he would be a very good fit for us if we stay with an Air Coryell system.

    Watkins is actually a very similar player to Torrey Smith in a lot of ways... both of them have outstanding straight-line speed, a little less fluidity/short area quickness, but both of them are more north-south type of receivers. Lining the two of them up outside would open up a LOT over the middle, because safeties would need to respect both of them over the top.

    If Watkins falls to 16 he would be a fantastic acquisition for us and could probably win the #2 job immediately out of camp. If the Ravens don't have a shot at Watkins, Marqise Lee would be a good consolation prize in the 1st. Odell Beckham is a 2nd round type of guy who would be a good fit in a vertical offense.




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    Re: The WR Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Watkins is a very, very good player, but I don't see him as a Randall Cobb/Percy Harvin type. Those guys are extremely quick and fluid. Watkins is more of a stiff-hipped, straight-line speed guy, and that makes him a better fit for a vertical-based offense as opposed to a West Coast style offense. In other words, he would be a very good fit for us if we stay with an Air Coryell system.

    Watkins is actually a very similar player to Torrey Smith in a lot of ways... both of them have outstanding straight-line speed, a little less fluidity/short area quickness, but both of them are more north-south type of receivers. Lining the two of them up outside would open up a LOT over the middle, because safeties would need to respect both of them over the top.

    If Watkins falls to 16 he would be a fantastic acquisition for us and could probably win the #2 job immediately out of camp. If the Ravens don't have a shot at Watkins, Marqise Lee would be a good consolation prize in the 1st. Odell Beckham is a 2nd round type of guy who would be a good fit in a vertical offense.
    I think he does have a little Cobb and Percy in him.

    In fact, I think he is a weird hybrid of Torrey and Cobb/Harvin. He did handle return duty like Cobb and Harvin.

    Maybe he is just hard to define.




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    Re: The WR Thread.

    He is good enough to trade up for if he falls past 10 IMO....




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    Re: The WR Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    He is good enough to trade up for if he falls past 10 IMO....
    I think if he drops near 8 the Ravens should consider trading up. Leapfrog DET.

    It wouldn't be prohibitively expensive for a true gamechanger.




  7. #7
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    Re: The WR Thread.

    I've heard Watkins be compared to a more polished Torrey with better hands, but me personally, I want Marquise Lee. He was the player who overshadowed Robert Woods at USC and I loved Woods coming out for the Ravens to take. I am interested on how tall he really is though.




  8. #8

    Re: The WR Thread.

    Still grading, and still need to rack and stack, but I've watched 27 prospects so far and besides Watkins, and to my great surprise, the most complete WR that I think I'm seeing is Michigan's Jeremy Gallon.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

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  9. #9
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    Re: The WR Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Still grading, and still need to rack and stack, but I've watched 27 prospects so far and besides Watkins, and to my great surprise, the most complete WR that I think I'm seeing is Michigan's Jeremy Gallon.
    I visited a Lions forum and some people talking him up.




  10. #10
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    Re: The WR Thread.

    Not a chance the Ravens trade up for Watkins. Ozzie is not gonna part with his #2 and/or #3 picks. But seriously: we all know that.

    A big question is if Evens will fall to us. If he is slow enough at the combine, maybe. Along with that is how high Marquise Lee rises. Now that he's over his knee injury, teams will be judging him by his skill set and they will like what they see.

    Teams that I think will take a long hard look at WR in the 1st round and are ahead of us:
    - #4 The Factory of Sadness- they got 2 1st round picks and QB and WR are high on their wish list. Hopefully they go QB 1st, but we're talking Cleveland here...
    - #5 Oakland- they have higher priorities but WR is in the mix there
    - #7 Tampa Bay- need offensive help, a 2nd WR to pair with Jackson. Lovie Smith might go for a pass rusher though.
    - #9 Buffalo- Either WR or TE will be the pick here and I don't think Amaro or Ebron grade out this high. Likely WR pick.
    - #10- Lions- WR or defense. Would love Evans I suspect.
    #12 Rams- They will have already picked their OT at 2. Now they need a real WR as Austin ain't that. The idea is to give Bradford an offense.
    - #15 Pittsburgh- Probably defense but will take a long look at Lee. They lose Sanders probably; do they think Wheaton can step in? Lee is a better receiver.

    Looking at the list above, at present teams aren't locked in on specific players as the draft has options for every team here. For the Ravens picking a WR at #16/17 depends on how Evans fares running his 40, how much Lee improves his stock and how the TE's Ebron and Amaro do in the pre-draft process (I suspect very well). Evans or Lee should be available to us though, if we want them. I give it a 60% chance that one of them will be available, 20% chance that both will be. Watkins? No chance. He becomes the BPA around the #5 pick.




  11. #11
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    Re: The WR Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Still grading, and still need to rack and stack, but I've watched 27 prospects so far and besides Watkins, and to my great surprise, the most complete WR that I think I'm seeing is Michigan's Jeremy Gallon.
    Gallon reminds me of guys like Marquis Goodwin, Lance Moore, etc. Very quick, solid vertical speed, nice hands, good routes...he is just tiny. I think he's what...5'8"? 5'9"? 180lbs?

    I wouldn't mind a guy like that on the roster, but I dont know that he'd be a good fit in the current offensive system.

    It is hard to gauge where the Ravens will go in the draft until they figure out their offensive staff. If they bring in a WCO or spread out guy like Lombardi or Kubiak, then a player like Gallon would make a lot of sense. If they stick with the AC (hopefully Norv if they do), then Gallon may not be a great fit.
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  12. #12

    Re: The WR Thread.

    Kelvin Benjamin is nice athlete, but is as a WR.
    I don't trust WRs that are lazy away from the play. Especially, when they play with a mobile QB.
    It's why I really disliked Duke's Connor Vernon (among others) for 2013.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

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  13. #13

    Re: The WR Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Gallon reminds me of guys like Marquis Goodwin, Lance Moore, etc. Very quick, solid vertical speed, nice hands, good routes...he is just tiny. I think he's what...5'8"? 5'9"? 180lbs?

    I wouldn't mind a guy like that on the roster, but I dont know that he'd be a good fit in the current offensive system.

    It is hard to gauge where the Ravens will go in the draft until they figure out their offensive staff. If they bring in a WCO or spread out guy like Lombardi or Kubiak, then a player like Gallon would make a lot of sense. If they stick with the AC (hopefully Norv if they do), then Gallon may not be a great fit.
    Gallon might not even be 5'8 lol, but yes, he's a scheme fit guy all the way and like you say, who the hell knows in which direction we're heading. But maybe they're just waiting for our boy to be knocked out of the POs

    The contested catches that Gallon makes at his size are pretty incredible...better than Cooks, who was the best 2014 guy I'd seen to-date. Gallon reminds me of Steve Smith, but with an elite vertical (he can dunk). I'm trying to get the draftbreakdown.com guys to post more clips of him. I only have one Michigan game still on the DVR.

    Like Jernigan in 2011, (hasn't produced b/c Victor Cruz happened to him), Cobb in 2011, and Hilton in 2012; Gallon is one of those small/smallish difference makers that will go 1 round early than generally valued b/c HCs and OCs know that if used correctly or in a complementary fashion, their ROI is huge.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  14. #14

    Re: The WR Thread.

    My breakdown of Watkins, FWIW:

    Before the catch
    -Gets off the line extremely quickly
    -Crisp and explosive out of his breaks
    -Excels at finding soft spots in all levels of a zone
    -Separates from coverage with ease
    -Escaping the jam is pretty unknown, as virtually no one at the college level is willing to risk attempting to jam him
    -Willing and physical blocker, albeit with a bit of inconsistency in that area

    Catching the ball
    -Snatches with his hands, not a body catcher at all.
    -Good catching radius; can bring in balls thrown behind, too low, too high, etc.
    -Has shown the ability to high-point the ball on jump-balls.
    -Very few issues with drops, but when they happen, it's typically when he's looking to turn upfield
    -Tough to grade how he catches the ball in tight coverage, as no one can cover him tightly

    After the catch
    -Elite acceleration; Gets up to top speed as fast as anyone you'll see
    -Runs through arm tackles, regularly gains extra yardage lowering the shoulder and plowing through defenders (took Ryan Shazier, a 1st-2nd round rated linebacker, back ~5 yards in the Orange Bowl)
    -Similar running style to a one-cut back; likes to plant his foot and get upfield
    -Led the nation in YAC, which indicates his ability with the ball in his hands

    Usage at Clemson
    Chad Morris loves to find ways to get the ball into his hands quickly and let him make plays with his feet. Used a ton on jet sweeps and WR screens. Also very commonly used on vertical routes (often as only a decoy) because of his ability to stretch the defense. Worked the middle of the field on digs, slants and posts, where he was very effective at settling in the soft spots. Excels in any type of comeback route due to his ability to separate. Often ran double moves on the deep stuff. Sometimes used in the return game, though doesn't have a particularly good feel for it.

    Don't be fooled, his skill set could flourish in any kind of system, West Coast, Air Coryell, or otherwise. The Torrey Smith comparison is ok, due to similar body type, top speed, and acceleration, but he's a much more complete and productive receiver coming out of college. Two comps that I like are a bigger, more powerful Tim Brown and a faster, more explosive Hakeem Nicks.

    I really like this play to summarize his abilities (at 9:18 if the time stamp link doesn't work properly):



    Runs a crisp route, snatches the ball, runs through two arm tackles, then turns up field quickly and uses quick cuts to beat the remaining defenders.
    Last edited by Mizerooskie; 01-06-2014 at 12:37 PM.




  15. #15

    Re: The WR Thread.

    That's a good scouting report on Watkins. My only concerns with him are with what he didn't see in college. As you pointed out, how will he respond to press coverage and NFL corners that have tight coverage. Will he be able to beat the press and get separation against corners that are aggressive and challenge him. And then against tight coverage can he consistently make contested catches without elite size like Anquan Boldin. If he proves to be able to do those things then he's more than worth trading up for.




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